oscarmax
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:37 am

zzcoopej wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:07 pm
msmatt wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:39 am
I suspect the OEM hitch is quite capable of 1500kg, but for some reason Mitsubishi decided to de-rate the system in North America. I doubt you would have any issues with a tent trailer. Just keep it in Charge Mode when towing, according to other threads in this forum.
The PHEV is designed to be a low energy vechile first and tow vehicle 2nd, and Americans are very unforgiving. The lower tow rating in US/Canada would be to avoid complaints & litigation.
I have done approx 4000km towing a 1280kg Adria 402PH 15ft caravan from Jindabyne to Mooloolaba. The PHEV is not an ideal towing vehicle and needs all the power you can give it when towing, hence the use of charge mode. I average around 15 litres/100km when towing at about 95km/h, which is about double what I get without towing. The extra weight and air resistance are significant, approx doubling the energy requirements.
We are achieving between 26.5/28.5 UK mpg towing a 1500kg caravan in the UK, your figures converted to UK 18.83 UK mpg @ 59.03mph
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

Bearhunter
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:46 am

zzcoopej, thanks for the info

This all started because I live in Ontario, Canada. Several months ago months ago, before the Oscar winning movie, and this aggravating virus I had decided that at 65 years old I was going on an epic road trip for a year or two or three. Then the all hell let lose. The plan was a truck and a trailer and away we go.
Well I naively said in my wisdom inspired by old age, "better let this blow over first" so here I am, exactly where I was a year ago !
Now I start getting serious again, no Trailers to be had. People are selling 5 year old rigs for more than they paid, and new ones are a year or more waiting list.
So then I thought, well, I'll just sleep in the car. What do I need. Mr Google then enlightened me to Sylvan pop up tent trailers, which led me to "hey can I tow that ?" which led me without noticing to UK sites about towing with an Outlander and then to North American sites and specs.
The fact that UK said 1500 KG and my local sites said max tow of 1500 LBS led me to the obvious conclusion that it was simply an overlooked typo because as we all know, things ain't what they used to be.
The short of it is, the tent trailer only weighs 850 lbs and is low profile so it IS possible and even realistic.
That does not however overcome the absurdity of the North American situation. Roads here are for the most part bigger better and wider plus none of them were originally put in by the Romans, so there is no REAL reason for the ridiculously low payload.
you can tell by this, I have too much time on my hands and have to get out ....

SilverD
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:26 pm

There was a post on Phev and towing that referred to a standard for towing which involved a standing start on a 12.5% gradient with maximum load and utilizing all available power and torque. It may be that because of the hilly terrain in Canada that Mitsubishi derated the Phev as it may not pass this test without a full charge, which may happen on very long climbs i would imagine. Without sufficient charge to effect a standing start it could leave drivers in awkward situations.

littlescrote
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:52 am

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:04 am

SilverD wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:26 pm
Without sufficient charge to effect a standing start it could leave drivers in awkward situations.
The amount of energy available (charge) does not change the standing start which simply requires power for a short time. More charge does not make more power available, only for a longer time.

greendwarf
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:01 am

If that is the test in Canada (unlike UK where it is to do with kerb weight) then the PHEV, like all EV power trains, might well struggle to comply. There have been numerous posts about failing on slopes from a standing start - and its inability to be able to mount a kerb - without a "run up". You need to complain to your legislators if they have not kept regulations in step with innovation.

zzcoopej
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:57 pm
Location: Gosford, Australia
Contact: Website

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:03 pm

oscarmax wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:37 am
We are achieving between 26.5/28.5 UK mpg towing a 1500kg caravan in the UK, your figures converted to UK 18.83 UK mpg @ 59.03mph
I have trouble believing that you only add 30% more fuel to almost double the weight AND stuff up aerodynamics? You seem to defy the laws of physics and a lot of other people's findings, or only travel on flat roads. I was achieving your mpg just with 2 kayaks and 2 bikes on the PHEV, no trailer at all!
Do you use a full tank of fuel to come up with this MPG figure? Of course if you set off with a full battery, for the distance while the battery is being depleted you get AMAZING mpg. Try setting off with an empty battery and then you will get the true mpg.

Also, if your van is 1500kg, then laden with gear and water etc, you would be 1800kg+ which is over limit.

SilverD
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:06 pm

Bearhunter wrote

"The short of it is, the tent trailer only weighs 850 lbs and is low profile so it IS possible and even realistic.
That does not however overcome the absurdity of the North American situation. Roads here are for the most part bigger better and wider plus none of them were originally put in by the Romans, so there is no REAL reason for the ridiculously low payload."


It would have taken a committee to decide that it was only going to be 1500lbs. One would think several legal representatives would have gone over the fine print and corrected it to rest of world standard unless they had a good reason/s to put it at 1500lbs. Be it structural integrity of the tow bar and body, to the ability of the vehicle to traverse snow covered roads while towing. The legal system in Canada/US would leave a person at the mercy of some very litigious people if something went wrong while towing above legal limit, I imagine.

greendwarf
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:45 am

Looking on-line and specifically the AAA website, which details towing regs state by state (US) and by province for Canada, I can't find any reference to towing weights laid down by law. But as previously posted, it is suggested the standard is about driving up a slope from a standing start.

So, as in UK, the towing limit is declared by the manufacturer based on the laid down test and will vary model by model. I think suggestions that it is driven by fear of lawsuits are rubbish. Mitsu are merely declaring what they believe is the realistic limit under the test applied in a particular country. In the UK it is a simple proportion of kerb weight but if the test in North America is a slope standing start then, due to physics for EV cars, the result will be lower that an equivalent ICE.

oscarmax
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:36 am

zzcoopej wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:03 pm
oscarmax wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:37 am
We are achieving between 26.5/28.5 UK mpg towing a 1500kg caravan in the UK, your figures converted to UK 18.83 UK mpg @ 59.03mph
I have trouble believing that you only add 30% more fuel to almost double the weight AND stuff up aerodynamics? You seem to defy the laws of physics and a lot of other people's findings, or only travel on flat roads. I was achieving your mpg just with 2 kayaks and 2 bikes on the PHEV, no trailer at all!
Do you use a full tank of fuel to come up with this MPG figure? Of course if you set off with a full battery, for the distance while the battery is being depleted you get AMAZING mpg. Try setting off with an empty battery and then you will get the true mpg.

Also, if your van is 1500kg, then laden with gear and water etc, you would be 1800kg+ which is over limit.
MTPLM 1500kg not sure were you get 1800kg from ? I am assuming you have the older 2.0 litre version caravanners we meet on site in the UK are reporting around around 22/24 for the 2.0 litre model, try dropping you speed down to 55 mph and use the charge mode.
Last edited by oscarmax on Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

oscarmax
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: What CAN I tow with PHEV

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:07 am

zzcoopej wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:03 pm
oscarmax wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:37 am
We are achieving between 26.5/28.5 UK mpg towing a 1500kg caravan in the UK, your figures converted to UK 18.83 UK mpg @ 59.03mph
I have trouble believing that you only add 30% more fuel to almost double the weight AND stuff up aerodynamics? You seem to defy the laws of physics and a lot of other people's findings, or only travel on flat roads. I was achieving your mpg just with 2 kayaks and 2 bikes on the PHEV, no trailer at all!
Do you use a full tank of fuel to come up with this MPG figure? Of course if you set off with a full battery, for the distance while the battery is being depleted you get AMAZING mpg. Try setting off with an empty battery and then you will get the true mpg.

Also, if your van is 1500kg, then laden with gear and water etc, you would be 1800kg+ which is over limit.
This might help you even practical caravan achieved 24mpg towing with a full depleted battery

https://www.practicalcaravan.com/review ... ander-phev
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

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