littlescrote said:IslandLife said:Don't use your electricity at highway speeds unless you just don't have any slower speed urban driving... it's horribly inefficient on EV mode at highway speed and blows through juice very quickly. Use NORMAL, SAVE or CHARGE (if there's a good reason) when on the highway.
It's most efficient on the highway when using NORMAL or SAVE mode (if saving juice for something later or you have some long mountain passes ahead). Otherwise if you've used your juice, just leave it alone, it drives more efficiently left alone running as a hybrid at that point.
You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word efficiency. EV mode is still by far the most efficient - it's just that at highway speed the power consumption is so high that it depletes the small battery energy quickly. Using the ICE is WAY less efficient, it's just that you have vastly more energy stored in the petrol tank.
As a counter to this, we live at the top of a small hill. If we set off with a full battery, it means that the first few times we brake, the PHEV only uses the disks. As ours regularly get a thin film of rust on them overnight, it means that the disks are cleaned each time we set off, which seems to make them last a bit longer. YMMVkpetrov said:Yep, regenerative braking do not work when battery is full, no place to store the energy.
If you live on top of the hill simply do not fully charge the battery by the mean of timed charging (you have to figure out the duration by trial and mistake)
IslandLife said:kpetrov said:Yep, regenerative braking do not work when battery is full, no place to store the energy.
If you live on top of the hill simply do not fully charge the battery by the mean of timed charging (you have to figure out the duration by trial and mistake)
2023 model or gen.4 is no better in regenerative braking in this case, if no place to store the energy.
It is coupling the ICE and using it as motor brake I heard.
Do not use the GOM as battery charge gauge, as said before it depends on previous trip energy use.
IslandLife is somehow writing contradictory stuff:
IslandLife said:The vehicle is more efficient when just left alone and running as a hybrid
It's most efficient on the highway when using NORMAL or SAVE mode (if saving juice for something later or you have some long mountain passes ahead). Otherwise if you've used your juice, just leave it alone, it drives more efficiently left alone running as a hybrid at that point.
On the highway, if you have some lower speed urban driving ahead of you... you can use CHARGE to get some juice in the battery to use for that driving, generally, using extra gas to charge and get some juice in the battery is offset by EV driving used for slower speed driving.
If left alone or in NORMAL it will use all the juice on the highway and you may end-up using the ICE in the urban area.
This type of vehicle should be never left alone for better efficiency.
How using CHARGE for fixed amount of time you needed different from just left alone and running as a hybrid? It uses the same engine but with CHARGE you have the control, left alone is whatever happens traffic and itinerary control.
At least with the last paragraph quoted he acknowledges using CHARGE and taking the control is the way to go.
Yes, As I described, and maybe I wasn't clear. I meant left in NORMAL when on the highway IF you don't have any juice left in the battery. Otherwise use SAVE to save that juice for use later in a better situation (slow speed urban driving). AND, if you don't have any juice in the battery, yes, it is better to use CHARGE to get just enough for use through slow speed urban sections.
Finally which one it is Normal or CHARGE?
That's why I said you contradict yourself, it seem you still can't decide.
But once you have enough, switch to SAVE vs leaving it in CHARGE. Again, as I described, unless you also have some large mountain passes to get up, then charging to get some juice in the battery for use to help you up the mountain is good.
In my experience. If you use CHARGE all the time for now good reason vs letting it run as a hybrid on it's own, you miss out on a number of efficiencies.
Who suggested to keep it in CHARGE all the time?
You keep it in CHARGE only on highway under 60% SOC and as long you need to.
Like when it turns off the engine when braking hard and using regen. Or when it turns off the engine as you approach intersections/stop lights etc. and then doesn't turn the engine on again until after you've pulled away and gained some speed.
We are talking about using CHARGE on the freeway when it can stay in parallel mode. I personally have never used CHARGE when out of it.
BTW when you enter in to deceleration the engine is stopping automatically even if you are in CHARGE and regeneration is fully available.
I've also found that depending on load, speed, battery SOC and other variable factors, even at highway speeds the software will sometimes choose between serial and parallel in instances where I would have assumed parallel would have been more appropriate but instead it chose serial.
One more reason to use CHARGE instead of SAVE. When left in SAVE it will switch or it will stay in more inefficient series mode just because you force it.
After running hundreds of these road trips now and testing every option under the sun... I've also noticed little things like, it seems to put more load on the engine when using "CHARGE" than it does during it's charging mode while running as a hybrid. Perhaps it assumes you want more charge sooner/quicker than it needs when charging while running as a hybrid.
Indeed in CHARGE there is more load to the engine so it will be in it's most efficient zone for any given rpm. and all excess power not needed for vehicle propelling is stored in the battery.
What "charging mode while running as a hybrid." even means? There is no such thing. There is only Parallel or Series modes of charging and I will quote you multiple sources that Parallel is more efficient than Series.
Parallel wouldn't be even available if it wasn't more efficient. They won't add complexity for nothing.
Either way, I've done this trip in both modes and combinations there of many, many times and consistently get better mileage while running in NORMAL or SAVE (if you have some battery) vs. CHARGE on the highway.
I assume you didn't correctly measure the consumption in those trips or you didn't use CHARGE properly and let is run for nothing.
I understand and feel sorry to sound condescending but there are some wrong assumptions in your advises.
kpetrov said:IslandLife said:kpetrov said:Yep, regenerative braking do not work when battery is full, no place to store the energy.
If you live on top of the hill simply do not fully charge the battery by the mean of timed charging (you have to figure out the duration by trial and mistake)
2023 model or gen.4 is no better in regenerative braking in this case, if no place to store the energy.
It is coupling the ICE and using it as motor brake I heard.
Do not use the GOM as battery charge gauge, as said before it depends on previous trip energy use.
IslandLife is somehow writing contradictory stuff:
If left alone or in NORMAL it will use all the juice on the highway and you may end-up using the ICE in the urban area.
This type of vehicle should be never left alone for better efficiency.
How using CHARGE for fixed amount of time you needed different from just left alone and running as a hybrid? It uses the same engine but with CHARGE you have the control, left alone is whatever happens traffic and itinerary control.
At least with the last paragraph quoted he acknowledges using CHARGE and taking the control is the way to go.
Yes, As I described, and maybe I wasn't clear. I meant left in NORMAL when on the highway IF you don't have any juice left in the battery. Otherwise use SAVE to save that juice for use later in a better situation (slow speed urban driving). AND, if you don't have any juice in the battery, yes, it is better to use CHARGE to get just enough for use through slow speed urban sections.
Finally which one it is Normal or CHARGE?
That's why I said you contradict yourself, it seem you still can't decide.
But once you have enough, switch to SAVE vs leaving it in CHARGE. Again, as I described, unless you also have some large mountain passes to get up, then charging to get some juice in the battery for use to help you up the mountain is good.
In my experience. If you use CHARGE all the time for now good reason vs letting it run as a hybrid on it's own, you miss out on a number of efficiencies.
Who suggested to keep it in CHARGE all the time?
You keep it in CHARGE only on highway under 60% SOC and as long you need to.
Like when it turns off the engine when braking hard and using regen. Or when it turns off the engine as you approach intersections/stop lights etc. and then doesn't turn the engine on again until after you've pulled away and gained some speed.
We are talking about using CHARGE on the freeway when it can stay in parallel mode. I personally have never used CHARGE when out of it.
BTW when you enter in to deceleration the engine is stopping automatically even if you are in CHARGE and regeneration is fully available.
I've also found that depending on load, speed, battery SOC and other variable factors, even at highway speeds the software will sometimes choose between serial and parallel in instances where I would have assumed parallel would have been more appropriate but instead it chose serial.
One more reason to use CHARGE instead of SAVE. When left in SAVE it will switch or it will stay in more inefficient series mode just because you force it.
After running hundreds of these road trips now and testing every option under the sun... I've also noticed little things like, it seems to put more load on the engine when using "CHARGE" than it does during it's charging mode while running as a hybrid. Perhaps it assumes you want more charge sooner/quicker than it needs when charging while running as a hybrid.
Indeed in CHARGE there is more load to the engine so it will be in it's most efficient zone for any given rpm. and all excess power not needed for vehicle propelling is stored in the battery.
What "charging mode while running as a hybrid." even means? There is no such thing. There is only Parallel or Series modes of charging and I will quote you multiple sources that Parallel is more efficient than Series.
Parallel wouldn't be even available if it wasn't more efficient. They won't add complexity for nothing.
Either way, I've done this trip in both modes and combinations there of many, many times and consistently get better mileage while running in NORMAL or SAVE (if you have some battery) vs. CHARGE on the highway.
I assume you didn't correctly measure the consumption in those trips or you didn't use CHARGE properly and let is run for nothing.
I understand and feel sorry to sound condescending but there are some wrong assumptions in your advises.
It should! Braking should be both front and rear at the same time. You should have your rear calipers looked at. There was a production issue with recall in the UK to replace rear calipers that are corroded. As the brakes get little use, it's worth extra preventative maintenance in that area. Once a year when changing back from winter wheels to summer wheels, disassemble the calipers to clean up and regrease all sliders etc.As a counter to this, we live at the top of a small hill. If we set off with a full battery, it means that the first few times we brake, the PHEV only uses the disks. As ours regularly get a thin film of rust on them overnight, it means that the disks are cleaned each time we set off, which seems to make them last a bit longer. YMMV
It does nothing for the rear disks, though :roll:
Another point here is that the engine can operate in 2 modes only: Series and Parallel.I think we all need to remember that it IS a hybrid in all modes except EV.
it's just a matter of what level of charge it tries to maintain. For the 12kWh battery that's about 25% Normal, 80% Charge and whatever it was when you press Save, which really means that if you start out fully charged, Charge or Save is essentially the same if you drive continuously, it runs from the battery until it gets down to something like 80% then goes hybrid at that level. Granted if you do stop for some reason the ICE will stop in Save but not in Charge usually. That can be handy if you know you're going to floor it when the traffic light goes green and don't want to wait for the engine startup, also Charge maybe useful for getting the engine warmed up, in anticipation of aforesaid flooration
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