Do not be scared of using that charge button.

[ThudnBlundr]

I have found that the strategy of using the Charge button really decreases mpg. I would only do this if you anticipate significant stop and go driving at future points in your journey.

I find that very hard to believe. If you're doing a trip out of EV range, the car has to use the ICE to provide energy for the journey. Whether you use the ICE to charge by pressing Charge, by pressing Save, or even by leaving it to manage itself, it will still have to run the ICE for the same amount to provide the same amount of energy. The whole point of this thread is that Charge mode runs the ICE no differently to Save or leaving it alone - it merely changes when the ICE is running, not how much. The only reasons that using Charge might be less efficient is is you run it to 80% (as charging gets less efficient after 60%) or if you fail to arrive with an empty battery.

[Fjpod]

I have found that the strategy of using the Charge button really decreases mpg. I would only do this if you anticipate significant stop and go driving at future points in your journey.

I find that very hard to believe. If you're doing a trip out of EV range, the car has to use the ICE to provide energy for the journey. Whether you use the ICE to charge by pressing Charge, by pressing Save, or even by leaving it to manage itself, it will still have to run the ICE for the same amount to provide the same amount of energy. The whole point of this thread is that Charge mode runs the ICE no differently to Save or leaving it alone - it merely changes when the ICE is running, not how much. The only reasons that using Charge might be less efficient is is you run it to 80% (as charging gets less efficient after 60%) or if you fail to arrive with an empty battery.

I'm not so sure that what you say is correct. If you hook up an instant MPG calculating device through your OBDII, When the ICE runs to recharge the battery, the instant mpg reading is significantly higher than when the ICE powers the wheels.

I am suggesting that unless you are going to encounter significant stop and go driving, or as someone else pointed out, significant uphill driving under heavy load, you might as well let the Hybrid Battery Management System regulate how it wants to use the ICE.

[kpetrov]

I have found that the strategy of using the Charge button really decreases mpg. I would only do this if you anticipate significant stop and go driving at future points in your journey.

I find that very hard to believe. If you're doing a trip out of EV range, the car has to use the ICE to provide energy for the journey. Whether you use the ICE to charge by pressing Charge, by pressing Save, or even by leaving it to manage itself, it will still have to run the ICE for the same amount to provide the same amount of energy. The whole point of this thread is that Charge mode runs the ICE no differently to Save or leaving it alone - it merely changes when the ICE is running, not how much. The only reasons that using Charge might be less efficient is is you run it to 80% (as charging gets less efficient after 60%) or if you fail to arrive with an empty battery.

I'm not so sure that what you say is correct. If you hook up an instant MPG calculating device through your OBDII, When the ICE runs to recharge the battery, the instant mpg reading is significantly higher than when the ICE powers the wheels.

I am suggesting that unless you are going to encounter significant stop and go driving, or as someone else pointed out, significant uphill driving under heavy load, you might as well let the Hybrid Battery Management System regulate how it wants to use the ICE.

If you arrive with an empty battery like ThudnBlundr said it should be the same.
If we leave on the side the fact that during CHARGE the ICE run in parallel mode if possible and in parallel the engine output will be used more efficiently the only variable left in the equation will be is constant CHARGEing for X minutes more or less efficient than intermittent SAVE charging for the same X (total) minutes.
I believe and it's logical that constant charging will be more efficient than intermittent charging from mechanical point of view.
If intermittent charging is more efficient for the battery the opposite may be truth.

[nkane]

Actually, by mountain driving I did not mean blasting up motorways through the mountains @ 90 mph. I mean long, steep roads with hairpins which will make you happy to average 20 mph, like for instance the Passo di Stelvio, or the Col de Iseran.



(Wikipedia)

Yes, yes, we have our twisty roads too here in California. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAJ

Thanks for the link to the Grapevine thread, Tai. After reading that it sounds like there are good reasons to begin big climbs with a full battery, no matter which method you use to fill the battery up. I'll report back in a few weeks with my experiences!

[ThudnBlundr]

I'm not so sure that what you say is correct. If you hook up an instant MPG calculating device through your OBDII, When the ICE runs to recharge the battery, the instant mpg reading is significantly higher than when the ICE powers the wheels.

I am suggesting that unless you are going to encounter significant stop and go driving, or as someone else pointed out, significant uphill driving under heavy load, you might as well let the Hybrid Battery Management System regulate how it wants to use the ICE.

You also get significantly higher instantaneous MPG when you drive uphill or when you accelerate, so by your logic you should avoid doing those as well. But instantaneous MPG is not what matters; we're more interested in overall MPG for a journey. And people on here have proved that using Charge for longer than the default actually improves MPG on a long journey. Not by much, but it certainly proves that using Charge doesn't increase your overall MPG for the same trip

[nkane]

So here's my report after my first big mountain road trip in the Outlander PHEV.

We loaded up with 2 adults, 1 baby, a roof box, and skiing and climbing gear and headed from the Bay to Mammoth for a long weekend. A few takeaways:

• We got turtled twice:
• once heading north on 395 going up to Sherwin Summit, a gain of about 3000' in 8 miles. The guessometer showed 4 miles at the start of the climb, went to 0 within a few hundred yards, and then I got shown the Turtle towards the top of the climb when I tried to give it a little extra gas to pass someone. Nothing terrible happened, and we were able to continue at 60mph up to the top of the pass.
• the second time was heading north on 395 up Conway summit, a gain of about 2000' in 10 miles. Again the battery was fairly empty before heading up but I turned Charge on a few miles prior. Not long enough apparently as the Turtle appeared near the top of the pass.
• Maybe it's the fault of the roof box, but the "Save" button didn't do much saving. I turned it on heading east out of the Bay, thinking that it would preserve my charge for the grind up to Carson Pass (7500' gain in 61 miles) but the battery dropped and dropped even in the flatlands and eventually hit zero not far into the climb. I turned on Charge for the remainder of that climb and the Turtle stayed hidden. I suspect the slower speeds on 88 (45-55 mph speed limits as compared with 65 mph on 395) meant less wind resistance and thus more power available to charge the battery. Perhaps the more gradual climbing gave the battery more time to recover and stressed the system less, too.
• The roof box kills mileage. It hurts you going flat and uphill due to wind resistance at freeway speeds, and then takes away the momentum for your recharge on the downhills.
• Just as the title of this thread says, the Charge button ain't so bad. It didn't seem to kill my instant mileage as much as expected and produced enough power (when pressed with an hour lead time) to keep the Turtle at bay going up from Gardnerville to Echo Pass (including Luther Pass), a gain of 4000' over 30 miles.

Items for further investigation:

• Will I get turtled on similar terrain without the roof box?
• How long before a big climb should I turn on Charge to ensure sufficient SOC to reach the top?
• What's the best way to track mileage over a long trip? I keep a spreadsheet of gas refills, which showed that I got 25-27mpg, including charging 3 times in Mammoth. Not great. But the first tank included some pre-trip driving and the second didn't include the last portion of driving to get home. The stupid "trip" screen on the MMCS is terrible: the auto reset after 6 hours of the car being turned off means you don't get a full picture of mileage between charges, and it doesn't show you how many miles you actually got on EV power, just a percentage. You have to remember your starting mileage and do the math yourself. And if you manually reset, you lose the lifetime history for the car, which I think is valuable. This is either terrible design or I'm missing something important.
• Is it possible to know when you've braked hard enough that it reduces regen? I've been trying to use the paddle shifters on downhills to maximize regen and not use the disc brakes. But it's kind of an annoying way to drive and I'd rather just keep in B0 and use the brake pedal if I knew I wouldn't brake too hard.

[Fjpod]

What happens exactly when you get Turtled? Can you maintain 60 mph going uphill? Could you accelerate to 70 mph if you wanted to?

[littlescrote]

[*] Maybe it's the fault of the roof box, but the "Save" button didn't do much saving. I turned it on heading east out of the Bay, thinking that it would preserve my charge for the grind up to Carson Pass (7500' gain in 61 miles) but the battery dropped and dropped even in the flatlands and eventually hit zero not far into the climb. I turned on Charge for the remainder of that climb and the Turtle stayed hidden. I suspect the slower speeds on 88 (45-55 mph speed limits as compared with 65 mph on 395) meant less wind resistance and thus more power available to charge the battery. Perhaps the more gradual climbing gave the battery more time to recover and stressed the system less, too.

[*] Is it possible to know when you've braked hard enough that it reduces regen? I've been trying to use the paddle shifters on downhills to maximize regen and not use the disc brakes. But it's kind of an annoying way to drive and I'd rather just keep in B0 and use the brake pedal if I knew I wouldn't brake too hard.

I suspect that you thought you hit Save but actually didn't, otherwise the charge level would not have fallen significantly, roof box or not. I've done it myself. Either not pressed it, or pressed it twice.

Honestly, driving in B0 in hills is daft. It would be a lot easier to drive in B5 if you don't want to be changing B frequently. Then if you don't need the full deceleration that B5 gives, you just don't lift the gas pedal that far.

The only way to know if you are braking beyond the level of regen which will be lower in B0 than B5 by the way, is to keep your eye on the power gauge. It will drop into the blue on regen and when it drops no more but you are pressing the brake pedal more, then it's obvious that you are using the mechanical brakes which is not going to help with efficiency.

[nkane]

What happens exactly when you get Turtled? Can you maintain 60 mph going uphill? Could you accelerate to 70 mph if you wanted to?

I was able to maintain 60 mph uphilll, but no longer had the torque to accelerate hard. I don't think I could have gotten up to 70. Fortunately the Turtle showed up close to the top of each hill, but I didn't have time to do much experimentation.

[nkane]

I suspect that you thought you hit Save but actually didn't, otherwise the charge level would not have fallen significantly, roof box or not. I've done it myself. Either not pressed it, or pressed it twice.

I assure you that was not the case. The "SAVE" icon was lit on the dashboard the whole time. I double checked because the battery level kept dropping.

Honestly, driving in B0 in hills is daft. It would be a lot easier to drive in B5 if you don't want to be changing B frequently. Then if you don't need the full deceleration that B5 gives, you just don't lift the gas pedal that far.

I disagree here. Don't you want to be gliding downhill whenever you don't need to be actively slowing the car down? Say on a long straight downhill. You've already paid for the energy to get up the hill - if you regen too hard, you'll need to accelerate sooner. That's inefficient. And when you're topping a rise, you want to accelerate just enough to get you over, and then immediately start gliding downhill. it's much easier in B0 to just let off the gas than to precisely modulate the pedal in any other setting.

And in B0, you can give your calf muscle a rest for a minute when descending. That's nice on a long drive.

The only way to know if you are braking beyond the level of regen which will be lower in B0 than B5 by the way, is to keep your eye on the power gauge. It will drop into the blue on regen and when it drops no more but you are pressing the brake pedal more, then it's obvious that you are using the mechanical brakes which is not going to help with efficiency.

Thanks. That's what I figured but it's hard to watch the gauge while driving!