Finally got a chance to test drive the new 2023 PHEV. Car had been cold soaked to -10ºC. In EV mode I could not get more than 45 kW of power to the motors. Acceleration was poor.
Does anyone else have a similar experience at those temperatures? My 2018 PHEV would always give the same electric power regardless of temperature.
Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
2023 Outlander PHEV SEL
2022 Tesla Model Y
2017 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 Outlander PHEV GT sold
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance sold
2017 Leaf SV sold
2014 Tesla S85 sold
2011 Leaf SL sold
2022 Tesla Model Y
2017 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 Outlander PHEV GT sold
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance sold
2017 Leaf SV sold
2014 Tesla S85 sold
2011 Leaf SL sold
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littlescrote
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:52 am
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
Performance would be poor!
My first response would be that if you wanted an EV that performs well at all temperatures then perhaps a full EV would have been developed as such. A PHEV could just use the engine and you'd get the benefit of some of the waste heat from the engine that most people are going to want anyway for journeys that are anything but very short.
I know it's not really the response you might want, but there will always be edge use cases that the manufacturers can't develop perfect products for.
My first response would be that if you wanted an EV that performs well at all temperatures then perhaps a full EV would have been developed as such. A PHEV could just use the engine and you'd get the benefit of some of the waste heat from the engine that most people are going to want anyway for journeys that are anything but very short.
I know it's not really the response you might want, but there will always be edge use cases that the manufacturers can't develop perfect products for.
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
Not sure what you are saying.
I've owned 5 pure EVs and owned the 2018 PHEV. I need to know if there was something wrong with the 2023 unit I test drove or if there is a system wide issue with all of the 2023 models before I purchase it.
(edit):
The dealership got back to me today and told me that the owners manual states that "Low temperatures will restrict motor output and vehicle performance may be decreased, the engine will then compensate for the power reduction"!
So that kind of defeats the purpose of having a bigger battery and heat pump if the the engine has to run in cold weather anyway.
I guess we will find out soon enough about this from the current North American owners as the cold weather descends across the continent.
I've owned 5 pure EVs and owned the 2018 PHEV. I need to know if there was something wrong with the 2023 unit I test drove or if there is a system wide issue with all of the 2023 models before I purchase it.
(edit):
The dealership got back to me today and told me that the owners manual states that "Low temperatures will restrict motor output and vehicle performance may be decreased, the engine will then compensate for the power reduction"!
So that kind of defeats the purpose of having a bigger battery and heat pump if the the engine has to run in cold weather anyway.
I guess we will find out soon enough about this from the current North American owners as the cold weather descends across the continent.
2023 Outlander PHEV SEL
2022 Tesla Model Y
2017 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 Outlander PHEV GT sold
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance sold
2017 Leaf SV sold
2014 Tesla S85 sold
2011 Leaf SL sold
2022 Tesla Model Y
2017 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 Outlander PHEV GT sold
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance sold
2017 Leaf SV sold
2014 Tesla S85 sold
2011 Leaf SL sold
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
Hello Lon. Here looking for 2023 answers myself. A bit of a sorting process just filtering out critical thinkers from fan boys.
Some thoughts, and let's call then conjecture for now, that might help (and might already be obvious to you).
1) 14F? Yea, that's a bit brisk.
2) Most battery technologies, and I don't know exactly what this is using, don't handle cold well. With less than 18KW available when warm, a cold PHEV battery can't output much power without hurting itself. Was I you I'd be asking these things:
A: Does the battery system have a pre-conditioning capability adequate to avoid this limitation?
B: Assuming so, can said conditioning operate while plugged in?
C: Is the vehicle capable of pre-conditioning, both battery and cabin, exclusively via EVSE, or might it start the ICE (a bad thing in a garaged vehicle).
D: At what ambient temperature is battery output restrictions lifted? (I want to say it's 40F for the Pacifica PHEV, as an example, but I don't remember anymore).
E: Is there a known worst-case period of time battery pre-condition is required?
F: Are these decisions based on ambient temperature or battery temperature?
If not obvious my thought is your issue is largely driven by a somewhat less common: An attempt to be used unexpectedly, literally frozen, and undocked. Had it been "docked" and pre-conditioned most PHEV"s would have been fine. Nor is there much of an answer given today's battery tech. It's my understanding solid state batteries perform much better at either temperature extreme so there is hope for the future.
This one? Depends on answers to above,
Some thoughts, and let's call then conjecture for now, that might help (and might already be obvious to you).
1) 14F? Yea, that's a bit brisk.
2) Most battery technologies, and I don't know exactly what this is using, don't handle cold well. With less than 18KW available when warm, a cold PHEV battery can't output much power without hurting itself. Was I you I'd be asking these things:
A: Does the battery system have a pre-conditioning capability adequate to avoid this limitation?
B: Assuming so, can said conditioning operate while plugged in?
C: Is the vehicle capable of pre-conditioning, both battery and cabin, exclusively via EVSE, or might it start the ICE (a bad thing in a garaged vehicle).
D: At what ambient temperature is battery output restrictions lifted? (I want to say it's 40F for the Pacifica PHEV, as an example, but I don't remember anymore).
E: Is there a known worst-case period of time battery pre-condition is required?
F: Are these decisions based on ambient temperature or battery temperature?
If not obvious my thought is your issue is largely driven by a somewhat less common: An attempt to be used unexpectedly, literally frozen, and undocked. Had it been "docked" and pre-conditioned most PHEV"s would have been fine. Nor is there much of an answer given today's battery tech. It's my understanding solid state batteries perform much better at either temperature extreme so there is hope for the future.
This one? Depends on answers to above,
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littlescrote
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:52 am
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
I'm saying exactly what the dealer has told you, which is to be expected for a PHEV.
It's not worth having that level of battery thermal management when the engine can just be used instead, whereas for an EV they still have to perform in cold weather so would have to employ battery heating systems, which would also reduce the capacity of a PHEV battery to a larger proportion.
It's not worth having that level of battery thermal management when the engine can just be used instead, whereas for an EV they still have to perform in cold weather so would have to employ battery heating systems, which would also reduce the capacity of a PHEV battery to a larger proportion.
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
There seem to a lot of people around who figure that PHEV means you get a BEV with a backup ICE engine. It's just not that way ... it is a hybrid and the control of which power is used when is controlled by the car's software. I think the someone (dealer or Mitsu) should tell folks that the various drive modes are things you can suggest to the car but the ultimate decision is made by the car's computer after analysing the current battery level, fuel level, ambient temperature and who knows what else.littlescrote wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:08 am I'm saying exactly what the dealer has told you, which is to be expected for a PHEV.
It's not worth having that level of battery thermal management when the engine can just be used instead, whereas for an EV they still have to perform in cold weather so would have to employ battery heating systems, which would also reduce the capacity of a PHEV battery to a larger proportion.
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
We drove the 2018 GT for four years in up to -30C weather and it never restricted electric power output to the motors. Always had sufficient EV power to do our commute without burning fuel just to add power. So no, it is not to be expected for a PHEV. Guess I should just stick with the older model. None of the EVs I've owned have restricted their power output that much when cold soaked.littlescrote wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:08 am I'm saying exactly what the dealer has told you, which is to be expected for a PHEV.
It's not worth having that level of battery thermal management when the engine can just be used instead, whereas for an EV they still have to perform in cold weather so would have to employ battery heating systems, which would also reduce the capacity of a PHEV battery to a larger proportion.
I would like to know the actual battery temperature thresholds that Mitsubishi has implemented. If the battery heater is active and warms it up enough during charging then one might be able to coast through the day outside at work and still stay above the lower limit.
2023 Outlander PHEV SEL
2022 Tesla Model Y
2017 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 Outlander PHEV GT sold
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance sold
2017 Leaf SV sold
2014 Tesla S85 sold
2011 Leaf SL sold
2022 Tesla Model Y
2017 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 Outlander PHEV GT sold
2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance sold
2017 Leaf SV sold
2014 Tesla S85 sold
2011 Leaf SL sold
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
Heat pump might be country specific? But it is mentioned in this page from Mitsu Canada.
https://www.mitsubishi-motors-pr.ca/202 ... announced/
https://www.mitsubishi-motors-pr.ca/202 ... announced/
Re: Cold Weather Performance - North American 2023
Ok thanks, wow heat pump and Mi-pilot there. Us "colonials" down-under get the raw end of the deal from Mitsubishi.mellobob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:55 pm Heat pump might be country specific? But it is mentioned in this page from Mitsu Canada.
https://www.mitsubishi-motors-pr.ca/202 ... announced/
