Charge mode?

[mountkay]

what's the most efficient mode overall? Normal, Eco or Volting

https://www.myoutlanderphev.com/thr...conomy-trailering-and-fuel-logbook-data.6548/

here is the most in depth thread I have seen

Volting did not give the OP better results than Normal.

Eco should be pretty much the same as Normal, except the accelerator pedal is less sensitive so it is easier to stay in the sweet spot for efficiency.

 

[Radioman]

Reading the above makes me really wonder ????Commom sense should dictate that there is no such thing as power from nothing-ever--its takes one form or another of energy to deliver the required power for any purpose. Its up the the buyer of any machine to determine the power required to do any particular job.. No need at all for rocket science--plaing common sense--Come on gentlemen --get serious--get inroi the real world and consider the future and all that is happening and delevoping instead of ranting about something almost everyone understands perfectly well already.

 

[Ben Baker]

Reading the above makes me really wonder ????Commom sense should dictate that there is no such thing as power from nothing-ever--its takes one form or another of energy to deliver the required power for any purpose. Its up the the buyer of any machine to determine the power required to do any particular job.. No need at all for rocket science--plaing common sense--Come on gentlemen --get serious--get inroi the real world and consider the future and all that is happening and delevoping instead of ranting about something almost everyone understands perfectly well already.

If "everyone" understood it, forums like this wouldn't exist. We're all trying to help each other out on trying to understand how this vehicle works, and how to use it. The obvious answer is read the manual, I have (three times now I think), and it seems whoever wrote the manual didn't seem to understand it either, not really explaining the how and the why.

After using the car for over a year I'm starting to figure some of it out, but should it take a year (or two, or three)?

 

[Polyian]

Reading the above makes me really wonder ????Commom sense should dictate that there is no such thing as power from nothing-ever--its takes one form or another of energy to deliver the required power for any purpose. Its up the the buyer of any machine to determine the power required to do any particular job.. No need at all for rocket science--plaing common sense--Come on gentlemen --get serious--get inroi the real world and consider the future and all that is happening and delevoping instead of ranting about something almost everyone understands perfectly well already.

You have the option to ignore what you don't want to read. Opinions expressed are meant to help others who may not have your level of knowledge.

 

[littlescrote]

The point should not be which mode is most efficient - it should be when to use each mode as they will have different efficiencies through different uses.

It should be obvious that if you have a 50 mile motorway journey followed by 5 miles of urban crawling before being able to plug in again, you should have enough battery left for the urban crawl and can use any combination of Save or Charge to end up at that point. But it should also be obvious that saving 20% of battery capacity for that from what you put in from your home charger is going to work out cheaper than using that on the motorway section and adding it back in through Charge mode, simply because adding it as Charge is less efficient. All of those details add up to how to get the best overall efficiency, although what you really care about is lowest cost. If plugging in to charge is more expensive, you'd be stupid to do it, even though it's more efficient.

 

[Ben Baker]

Gas can be cheaper than DC fast charging, the cheapest (by far) is home charging.

 

[Woon Chung]

I keep thinking about that who is writing a post on this forum. Is he a engineer? Is he a Mitsubishi Lover? Is he thirsty about knowledge of the new tech? .. I don't know. I am wondering why people saying the same thing repeatedly?

One guy is providing all journey data to prove(or simply show to us), and other guy believes it not needed such a details for a driving a car.

All chaos of the words in this column carrys a ship to the mountain.

All this made by car manufacturer. If we have textbook like "Physics", "Chemicals", "History", Caculus" of highschool, for Mitshubish Outlander PHEV, there will be no debating like this. So called is there one book, User Manual. But it is not for details as we should take it as common sence. There are missing articles of the principles not like out highschool textbook to kill such a debate.

But for me, I can pick up many valuable information from these writings. Nothing to be wasted. All valuable. Because I feel like these made me a PHd on Outlander PHEV.

Cheers,

 

[littlescrote]

Again, the Manual can tell you how it works, but it's up to you to decide how to use it based on your journey. Same as you would decide to walk, cycle or take a car, so it is with deciding which Mode to use.

 

[Phev2016]

Gas can be cheaper than DC fast charging, the cheapest (by far) is home charging.

Not always. Last winter when my day rate for electricity in the UK was £0.41/kw and petrol was around £1.60/litre, the car's low range in winter meant that it was cheaper to use fuel after the overnight charge at low rate of £0.09 was used up.

 

[Ben Baker]

Not always. Last winter when my day rate for electricity in the UK was £0.41/kw and petrol was around £1.60/litre, the car's low range in winter meant that it was cheaper to use fuel after the overnight charge at low rate of £0.09 was used up.

Reference is to North American petrol and electricity rates.

 

[Jedinsky]

The point should not be which mode is most efficient - it should be when to use each mode as they will have different efficiencies through different uses.

It should be obvious that if you have a 50 mile motorway journey followed by 5 miles of urban crawling before being able to plug in again, you should have enough battery left for the urban crawl and can use any combination of Save or Charge to end up at that point. But it should also be obvious that saving 20% of battery capacity for that from what you put in from your home charger is going to work out cheaper than using that on the motorway section and adding it back in through Charge mode, simply because adding it as Charge is less efficient. All of those details add up to how to get the best overall efficiency, although what you really care about is lowest cost. If plugging in to charge is more expensive, you'd be stupid to do it, even though it's more efficient.

i'm no expert but doesn't the petrol engine run as a generator when under 80km/hr or 50mi/hr? add that onto the fact that electric motors are most efficient at low RPM and it'd make the most sense to drive in "EV only" mode below 80km/50mi and "petrol only" mode when going faster than 80km/50mi.

"petrol only" driving the car using the mechanical transmission is the absolute peak efficiency possible from the petrol engine. using the petrol to generate electricity to drive the EV motors is less efficient (10-20% less than direct drive), and when using "charge mode" you lose energy not just at the generator (10%) but also at the battery (around 10%) and again when that energy goes to the EV motors (5-10%). charge mode should be avoided whenever possible.

having said that, anyone obsessed with efficiency should walk or buy a bus ticket, the best way to run a PHEV is with the intent to maximise reliability, frequent cold starts damage petrol engines, which is one of the reasons the engine stays on for a while (which people complain about), oblivious to the fact that the few cents in fuel they're losing is saving them hundreds of dollars in maintenance in the long run, and maintenance costs are the main drawback of PHEVs.

 

[Woon Chung]

Reading the above makes me really wonder ????Commom sense should dictate that there is no such thing as power from nothing-ever--its takes one form or another of energy to deliver the required power for any purpose. Its up the the buyer of any machine to determine the power required to do any particular job.. No need at all for rocket science--plaing common sense--Come on gentlemen --get serious--get inroi the real world and consider the future and all that is happening and delevoping instead of ranting about something almost everyone understands perfectly well already.

There are 2 more reply on this article already. I totally agree on those 2 people and I would like to add some more garbage information to encourage them.

I am in the top of the car knowledge. So I wonder how high your common sense is on the reached. You are talking about the law of total sum of energy in universe, saying by one form or another of energy. Somebody who does not know such Law of Universe trying to get most of their car by asking us and you are not trying to share your knowledge by say common sense.

Common sense

This is not for you because it is common sense but for who eagerly want to know about PHEV more.

EV and Hybrid has been started 100 years ago but until Elon Musk produce the EV car in the world, it is not realized because of battery technology
EV motor is one of old science by the technology of Fleming's Rule(130 years ago) until production cost per efficiency is acceptable. Tesla is the most famous scientist of Generating Electric from the motor for the fist time using Fleming' Rule. Niagara fall has it. That's why Tesla is the father of Electricity. Many people understand Tesla as name of the car.

Once Lithium Ion becomes useful in real life, Elon started to use it for car. Once the world learns about that Lithium battery can be used for car motor, putting aside EV car, Engineers who have been suffered for low fuel efficiency of ICE cars, invented Hybrid engine, that uses both electric motor and Gasoline engine. They already know Boyle Shale's law in combustion engine is at it maximum efficiency(it started 6% and improved 40% recently, while electric motor efficiency is 80% to 99%), and Engine design and Transmitter tech is in its maximum, too, they want electric motor covers the week point of combustion Engine.

ICE car consuming gas shows worst fuel efficiency when start the car moving and idling when stop at traffic signal. It shows high fuel efficiency during high speed driving with engine design and most advanced transmission. So if they use the electric motor for start the car and stop engine during idling by 12 v electric system supplied by small size of Lithium battery. Toyota produced a Prius as Hybrid car. Frankly speaking, it is expensive because of battery price. Also cannot apply high tech transmission. However, most of the defects have been improved day by day. It proved that Hybrid can save gas a lot even though it has not enough power to apply to SUV.

As time goes by, upon the support of pioneering Elon, battery industry is good enough to supply at lower price of Lithium Battery, though it is still very expensive. However, Mitsubishi applied a little bigger battery to produce a higher power when needed. Considering a Hybrid theory, it is not so much economical in fuel efficiency, but power becomes a sweeet candy for taste. However, because of 2 motors and big battery, the price is too high. But someone who needs big space in the cargo area and as strong as SUV as family car, welcomed this first PHEV. If somebody bought this car for fuel efficiency only, you paid too much, I think. There are ten's of cars with high fuel efficiency in PHEV. Unimaginably high fuel efficiency, I mean.

The bad side of Outlander PHEV is not so strong as other regular SUV's. It becomes heavier and shocks are not so sturdy to endure the weight. However, 2 electric motor is nicely controlled by computer and S-AWC has good reputation. It has good reputation in snow, like Subaru. However it is not good enough on muddy or country stone road as Subaru. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has been transformed to regular Family SUV, though it does not have luxury options in it category.

So, there are many critics on such a transformed Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. They tried to get the most of the money they spend on the car, but some people get disappointed with flimsy riding, low fuel efficiency, unclarified and complicated multiple controls, minor sensor failures etc. Also, compare to other car manufacturer, the car tech is staying at 2013. Nothing improved. Just a little bigger battery. That's it.

See other car manufacturers. They try their best to take part in or survive from the car market. Toyota became the Leading Hybrid engineering Manufacturer, and Koreans and China are leading battery manufacturer and EV cars. When you experience the modern technics on other cars, you will never go back to old style Mitsubishi again. That is common sense in the world.

Korean car has already V2L function inside. It is not Rocket science. Just a program and Simple Circuit design, because big battery is already inside the car. While, Mitsubishi withdraw 3000w inverter once they invented in 2013. It cost up to US6k for choosing GT model which has internal 120 V outlet. Australian guy know that Outlander has capability to supply power for house, and then they spend $6k(uncertain) to build external V2H. Ford does the same job for V2L V2G V2H already. One guy installed after market OEM inverter but the cost of the parts could be $6k. From now on, by the support from advancing car manufacturers, you will enjoy the car just like a smart phone, emergency generator, if you choose and want it.

Your choice is valuable. Someone would like to stay at ICE for 10 years more, because of lack of battery safety and charging hub system. I agree with that in some way. Some prefer strong SUV for weekend hobby. That's great. Some wants PHEV for easy camping power. Some wants solar system for house emergency power failure. So much high tech products are existing here and there. So, there is no common sense anymore. More detailed information is required for wise survival in this Chaos of Scientific Products. We need to share information even it looks like a feather weight to me, it could be tons of valuable information for other lives.

 

[Radioman]

I have my 2020 RHD model now for 6 weeks , love it, its a beauty and spotless, have it figured out totally, in this time, its a nice -simple -easy to manage vehicle-very efficient-charge it at zero cost from my self installed solar system--do many journeys using NORMAL-SAVE-CHARGE as appropraite-- its our second Hybrid. No manual came with the vehicle , it was a Japenese import--found the manual and user guide plus the network guide online--had then all printed to book form and carry in vehicle. Everything works as it should after a few minor issues--interesting to read all the comments from owners who do not seem to have read the manuals thoroughly or understand battery technology in particular. A good readup on Lithium Iron Phosphate and Solid State batteries ( being perfected by the likes of Toyota) as are coming soon,is worth it , will help anyone get the most and the longest life out of these devices. Ill buy a new Outlander next and I am hoping Mitsubishi continue to update-improve -and re-style as the vehicle evolves. The Outlander is not sold currently in Ireland but there are many imports on the road here.

 

[Roxyman]

If "everyone" understood it, forums like this wouldn't exist. We're all trying to help each other out on trying to understand how this vehicle works, and how to use it. The obvious answer is read the manual, I have (three times now I think), and it seems whoever wrote the manual didn't seem to understand it either, not really explaining the how and the why.

After using the car for over a year I'm starting to figure some of it out, but should it take a year (or two, or three)?

Yep I’ve occasionally had some smart arse comments…. Best ignored. What I would say having had the car for a while now is I feel I’m sort of growing into it and getting to know when and where to use each drive function.
Agreed, the manual is daunting !!!

 

[littlescrote]

i'm no expert but doesn't the petrol engine run as a generator when under 80km/hr or 50mi/hr? add that onto the fact that electric motors are most efficient at low RPM and it'd make the most sense to drive in "EV only" mode below 80km/50mi and "petrol only" mode when going faster than 80km/50mi.

"petrol only" driving the car using the mechanical transmission is the absolute peak efficiency possible from the petrol engine. using the petrol to generate electricity to drive the EV motors is less efficient (10-20% less than direct drive), and when using "charge mode" you lose energy not just at the generator (10%) but also at the battery (around 10%) and again when that energy goes to the EV motors (5-10%). charge mode should be avoided whenever possible.

having said that, anyone obsessed with efficiency should walk or buy a bus ticket, the best way to run a PHEV is with the intent to maximise reliability, frequent cold starts damage petrol engines, which is one of the reasons the engine stays on for a while (which people complain about), oblivious to the fact that the few cents in fuel they're losing is saving them hundreds of dollars in maintenance in the long run, and maintenance costs are the main drawback of PHEVs.

Yes, absolutely. But you're missing the fact that Charge uses the direct petrol drive to give best efficiency, but at low load there is still some excess power available at Wide Open Throttle, so to make the most of that it goes to the battery, rather than throttle the engine down and lose efficiency.

 

[phevnz21]

There are 2 more reply on this article already. I totally agree on those 2 people and I would like to add some more garbage information to encourage them.

I am in the top of the car knowledge. So I wonder how high your common sense is on the reached. You are talking about the law of total sum of energy in universe, saying by one form or another of energy. Somebody who does not know such Law of Universe trying to get most of their car by asking us and you are not trying to share your knowledge by say common sense.

Common sense

This is not for you because it is common sense but for who eagerly want to know about PHEV more.

EV and Hybrid has been started 100 years ago but until Elon Musk produce the EV car in the world, it is not realized because of battery technology
EV motor is one of old science by the technology of Fleming's Rule(130 years ago) until production cost per efficiency is acceptable. Tesla is the most famous scientist of Generating Electric from the motor for the fist time using Fleming' Rule. Niagara fall has it. That's why Tesla is the father of Electricity. Many people understand Tesla as name of the car.

Once Lithium Ion becomes useful in real life, Elon started to use it for car. Once the world learns about that Lithium battery can be used for car motor, putting aside EV car, Engineers who have been suffered for low fuel efficiency of ICE cars, invented Hybrid engine, that uses both electric motor and Gasoline engine. They already know Boyle Shale's law in combustion engine is at it maximum efficiency(it started 6% and improved 40% recently, while electric motor efficiency is 80% to 99%), and Engine design and Transmitter tech is in its maximum, too, they want electric motor covers the week point of combustion Engine.

ICE car consuming gas shows worst fuel efficiency when start the car moving and idling when stop at traffic signal. It shows high fuel efficiency during high speed driving with engine design and most advanced transmission. So if they use the electric motor for start the car and stop engine during idling by 12 v electric system supplied by small size of Lithium battery. Toyota produced a Prius as Hybrid car. Frankly speaking, it is expensive because of battery price. Also cannot apply high tech transmission. However, most of the defects have been improved day by day. It proved that Hybrid can save gas a lot even though it has not enough power to apply to SUV.

As time goes by, upon the support of pioneering Elon, battery industry is good enough to supply at lower price of Lithium Battery, though it is still very expensive. However, Mitsubishi applied a little bigger battery to produce a higher power when needed. Considering a Hybrid theory, it is not so much economical in fuel efficiency, but power becomes a sweeet candy for taste. However, because of 2 motors and big battery, the price is too high. But someone who needs big space in the cargo area and as strong as SUV as family car, welcomed this first PHEV. If somebody bought this car for fuel efficiency only, you paid too much, I think. There are ten's of cars with high fuel efficiency in PHEV. Unimaginably high fuel efficiency, I mean.

The bad side of Outlander PHEV is not so strong as other regular SUV's. It becomes heavier and shocks are not so sturdy to endure the weight. However, 2 electric motor is nicely controlled by computer and S-AWC has good reputation. It has good reputation in snow, like Subaru. However it is not good enough on muddy or country stone road as Subaru. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has been transformed to regular Family SUV, though it does not have luxury options in it category.

So, there are many critics on such a transformed Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. They tried to get the most of the money they spend on the car, but some people get disappointed with flimsy riding, low fuel efficiency, unclarified and complicated multiple controls, minor sensor failures etc. Also, compare to other car manufacturer, the car tech is staying at 2013. Nothing improved. Just a little bigger battery. That's it.

See other car manufacturers. They try their best to take part in or survive from the car market. Toyota became the Leading Hybrid engineering Manufacturer, and Koreans and China are leading battery manufacturer and EV cars. When you experience the modern technics on other cars, you will never go back to old style Mitsubishi again. That is common sense in the world.

Korean car has already V2L function inside. It is not Rocket science. Just a program and Simple Circuit design, because big battery is already inside the car. While, Mitsubishi withdraw 3000w inverter once they invented in 2013. It cost up to US6k for choosing GT model which has internal 120 V outlet. Australian guy know that Outlander has capability to supply power for house, and then they spend $6k(uncertain) to build external V2H. Ford does the same job for V2L V2G V2H already. One guy installed after market OEM inverter but the cost of the parts could be $6k. From now on, by the support from advancing car manufacturers, you will enjoy the car just like a smart phone, emergency generator, if you choose and want it.

Your choice is valuable. Someone would like to stay at ICE for 10 years more, because of lack of battery safety and charging hub system. I agree with that in some way. Some prefer strong SUV for weekend hobby. That's great. Some wants PHEV for easy camping power. Some wants solar system for house emergency power failure. So much high tech products are existing here and there. So, there is no common sense anymore. More detailed information is required for wise survival in this Chaos of Scientific Products. We need to share information even it looks like a feather weight to me, it could be tons of valuable information for other lives.

What an interesting and wide-ranging discourse. Thankyou. Despite its various minor shortcomings, I still like my Outlander PHEV for its quietness, torque and good handling (by my standards) on twisting roads, due to its two motors, and the way its feel is improved by not having a variable or multi-speed transmission. An intelligent design, even if now a dated one.

 

[Woon Chung]

Yes, absolutely. But you're missing the fact that Charge uses the direct petrol drive to give best efficiency, but at low load there is still some excess power available at Wide Open Throttle, so to make the most of that it goes to the battery, rather than throttle the engine down and lose efficiency.

I am still confusing on PHEV driving mechanism, when I see some different opinions on efficiency. Before I describe my question, I would like to be in the same page on the meaning of efficiency as fuel efficiency. That is, better efficiency means it uses less gas for same distance driving.
Sorry for using variable symbols such as, x,y,z, α,β,δ,Δ,Ε.

My confusion about driving mechanism is
I drive 50miles under normal mode and used x gallons
I drive 50miles under Charge mode under slow speed and used y gallons
I drive 50miles under charge mode under fast speed and used z gallons
I think y and z values are bigger than x value because Charge mode forced to run petrol engine to run generator attached to petrol engine. This generator will charge battery until battery level becomes 80% of its capacity. About this mechanism, most of the people believes charged energy sum(α) during high speed is larger than charged energy sum(β) during low speed of the car, when comparing y and z value. (example: Someone says he/she does not use Charge mode when car is in slow speed)

My 1st question is that if we are talking about fuel efficiency, we have to clarify the difference of used gas quantity for α and β. The absolute quantity value of α and β will be same in the long run, because both is reached to 80%. Another variable in calculating consumed gas quantity under Charge mode, (to clarify the difference between y value and z value) high speed - high gas consume - high electricity generated vs low speed -low gas consume - low electricity generated equation should be considered condition.

Next observation for gas efficiency is that additional EV distance made by y and z values.
Result 1. Y = z. This represents same fuel efficiency for both high or low speed under Charge mode.
-> δ=y-x and δ=z-x, δ represents excessive gasoline quantity caused by charge mode for driving 50miles. This will provide longer EV driving distance. Define Δ as the driving distance made by δ. Calculating total distance will be 50+Δ, by using y or z, under charge mode.

My 2nd question. If Charge mode has higher fuel efficiency than normal mode driving, the distance under normal mode distance(define as Ε) by x+δ, should be smaller than 50+Δ. Such as 50+Δ>Ε.
If result is 50+Δ<Ε, Charge mode is less fuel efficiency than normal drive mode.
If result is 50+Δ=Ε, Charge mode is same fuel efficiency with normal drive mode.

If someone understand this consumptions and equation, we can debate in more details later on, if someone wants.

Unfortunately, nobody approaches in such a scientific way of thinking when we try to find the reality of fuel efficiency. If not, every conclusion causes confusion only. I already mentioned that such equation cannot be proved by driving on the street. It only can be done at lab with accurate equipment by technician.

My assumption of the each values are, however
1. y=z
2. 50+Δ<Ε
if we really understand the mechanism of Hybrid series mode driving.

Please do not mix with parallel mode driving when we talk about fuel efficiency. Parallel mode is the result of computer selection when vehicle requires a maximum total sum of power. Electric motor has the first priority to be used for moving the car in HEV and PHEV. When battery reaches bottom(10%-15%, maybe), ICE generator start to charge battery. If computer determine charging is enough for extra 1 mile, it stops generator. This mechanism will be repeated until driver select Save or Charge function. In any case, ICE only runs generator for charging. According to road condition or driver ask computer for more power by pressing accelerator deep, computer use ICE for power source of driving the wheel. The electric motor and combustion both at the same time being used for moving wheels. You already understand this phenomena in ICE only car. In automatic transmission of ICE car it automatically lower gear when we step on accelerator for high power when passing or uphill climbing. It lowers fuel efficiency a lot.

Think about this special occasion. When driver face the road situation for power, but battery level is minimum, the car cannot reach to the total high torque, engine + motor, because battery as low as for basic Hybrid function. Parallel mode is not available. Thus, the manual says, charge battery at least 20 minutes before you need, or save the power level before empty by Save function. This is the main purpose of Charge and Save mode. Not for all occasions but definitely not for fuel efficiency.

Good luck to all

 

[Woon Chung]

What an interesting and wide-ranging discourse. Thankyou. Despite its various minor shortcomings, I still like my Outlander PHEV for its quietness, torque and good handling (by my standards) on twisting roads, due to its two motors, and the way its feel is improved by not having a variable or multi-speed transmission. An intelligent design, even if now a dated one.

No problem at all. I really admire your way of loving your car. I envy you that you own a car to your satisfactory. MIT deserves it.

 

[Woon Chung]

i'm no expert but doesn't the petrol engine run as a generator when under 80km/hr or 50mi/hr? add that onto the fact that electric motors are most efficient at low RPM and it'd make the most sense to drive in "EV only" mode below 80km/50mi and "petrol only" mode when going faster than 80km/50mi.

"petrol only" driving the car using the mechanical transmission is the absolute peak efficiency possible from the petrol engine. using the petrol to generate electricity to drive the EV motors is less efficient (10-20% less than direct drive), and when using "charge mode" you lose energy not just at the generator (10%) but also at the battery (around 10%) and again when that energy goes to the EV motors (5-10%). charge mode should be avoided whenever possible.

having said that, anyone obsessed with efficiency should walk or buy a bus ticket, the best way to run a PHEV is with the intent to maximise reliability, frequent cold starts damage petrol engines, which is one of the reasons the engine stays on for a while (which people complain about), oblivious to the fact that the few cents in fuel they're losing is saving them hundreds of dollars in maintenance in the long run, and maintenance costs are the main drawback of PHEVs.

I am not an expert, neither. But it is clear that we have different understanding about PHEV. I am not insisting that I am right and you are wrong. I just introduce my understanding of PHEV.

1. PHEV runs under 2 kind of mode. One is series and another is parallel. Series means one of 2 power source is used for wheel drive in turn and parallel means both 2 power source is used for wheel drive at the same time. This is difference between HEV and PHEV. Not just having a bigger battery but extending the roles of each power source.

2. PHEV and HEV use battery as first priority for driving wheel, except for a certain occasion. ICE is used for running generator, when needed, mostly. PHEV has bigger battery, it runs longer distance without gas in the beginning stage of journey.

3. Car engineers found the most severe gas consuming is moving the car from stop position. Basic concept of Hybrid is the fact that electric motor covers worst fuel consumption of starting position, under the theory of Electric motor's torque character, which is even in all range of rpm. Next, the traction battery will take over 12v system by kill engine during the car is not moving. In hybrid mode, even though we cannot recognize it, electric motor start the car and then engine follows. Re-Gen is minor side effect only.

4. Since PHEV has bigger battery, it is available to run both battery and gas for driving wheels, when the road condition needs it, such as uphill with trailer, passing other cars in speedway. It is called parallel mode. But it can be done by the computer only, not by driver's intention. Charge and Save is for this occasions. Therefore, to run parallel mode successfully, battery should be kept over a certain level. Without this, it will stay as regular Hybrid character, where parallel is not applicable. So, there should be a preparation for parallel by charging battery minimum 20 minutes before occasion comes or Save battery in a certain level to be maintained. That is the Charge and Save function. However, if you do not need high power by parallel mode, avoid to use this, since once using power mode, its a loss of gasoline. Newton's Law.

5. If cold engine causes severe maintenance cost, HEV should have been disappeared from the market faced ice breaker critics when it showed in the market, 2 decades ago. All engine related science solved most of cold crank issue nicely, and it is no more issues in general petrol engine. The most important affect from cold weather is temp of engine oil. But new tech of motor oil minimize the damage to the engine. So, first rev under dry cylinder will damage head gasket and cylinder wall but once oil(even cold) circulates a cycle, not noticeable damage on engine. Cold weather also affects the efficiency of battery, too. But non related with maintenance cost of engine. The normal is the best for HEV and PHEV. We don't have to worry about how to use this car. That mode controls everything for the best of maintain and run for the car.

6. PHEV fuel efficiency talks should be limited in the world of HEV. Even though it is PHEV, fuel efficiency is the concept of HEV world, since Charge, Save is limited function when using the car in parallel mode. And we must know that parallel is for power use, not for gas saving. If you have same thought on this, you will agree that Charge and Save is not needed for Hybrid driving. Some side effect of fuel efficiency on PHEV is first EV distance by plug in at home. In liner equation for HEV is Y=AX, A is fuel efficiency. PHEV liner equation is Y= AX+20. If the distance(Y) is fixed value, gasoline(X) will be determined by A variable. Unfortunately, A variable is hard to be changed once the engine is manufactured. Slow Start and steady speed is the only choice we can do.

If I am wrong, teach me.

Good luck to all

 

[littlescrote]

I am still confusing on PHEV driving mechanism, when I see some different opinions on efficiency. Before I describe my question, I would like to be in the same page on the meaning of efficiency as fuel efficiency. That is, better efficiency means it uses less gas for same distance driving.
Sorry for using variable symbols such as, x,y,z, α,β,δ,Δ,Ε.

My confusion about driving mechanism is
I drive 50miles under normal mode and used x gallons
I drive 50miles under Charge mode under slow speed and used y gallons
I drive 50miles under charge mode under fast speed and used z gallons
I think y and z values are bigger than x value because Charge mode forced to run petrol engine to run generator attached to petrol engine. This generator will charge battery until battery level becomes 80% of its capacity. About this mechanism, most of the people believes charged energy sum(α) during high speed is larger than charged energy sum(β) during low speed of the car, when comparing y and z value. (example: Someone says he/she does not use Charge mode when car is in slow speed)

My 1st question is that if we are talking about fuel efficiency, we have to clarify the difference of used gas quantity for α and β. The absolute quantity value of α and β will be same in the long run, because both is reached to 80%. Another variable in calculating consumed gas quantity under Charge mode, (to clarify the difference between y value and z value) high speed - high gas consume - high electricity generated vs low speed -low gas consume - low electricity generated equation should be considered condition.

Next observation for gas efficiency is that additional EV distance made by y and z values.
Result 1. Y = z. This represents same fuel efficiency for both high or low speed under Charge mode.
-> δ=y-x and δ=z-x, δ represents excessive gasoline quantity caused by charge mode for driving 50miles. This will provide longer EV driving distance. Define Δ as the driving distance made by δ. Calculating total distance will be 50+Δ, by using y or z, under charge mode.

My 2nd question. If Charge mode has higher fuel efficiency than normal mode driving, the distance under normal mode distance(define as Ε) by x+δ, should be smaller than 50+Δ. Such as 50+Δ>Ε.
If result is 50+Δ<Ε, Charge mode is less fuel efficiency than normal drive mode.
If result is 50+Δ=Ε, Charge mode is same fuel efficiency with normal drive mode.

If someone understand this consumptions and equation, we can debate in more details later on, if someone wants.

Unfortunately, nobody approaches in such a scientific way of thinking when we try to find the reality of fuel efficiency. If not, every conclusion causes confusion only. I already mentioned that such equation cannot be proved by driving on the street. It only can be done at lab with accurate equipment by technician.

My assumption of the each values are, however
1. y=z
2. 50+Δ<Ε
if we really understand the mechanism of Hybrid series mode driving.

Please do not mix with parallel mode driving when we talk about fuel efficiency. Parallel mode is the result of computer selection when vehicle requires a maximum total sum of power. Electric motor has the first priority to be used for moving the car in HEV and PHEV. When battery reaches bottom(10%-15%, maybe), ICE generator start to charge battery. If computer determine charging is enough for extra 1 mile, it stops generator. This mechanism will be repeated until driver select Save or Charge function. In any case, ICE only runs generator for charging. According to road condition or driver ask computer for more power by pressing accelerator deep, computer use ICE for power source of driving the wheel. The electric motor and combustion both at the same time being used for moving wheels. You already understand this phenomena in ICE only car. In automatic transmission of ICE car it automatically lower gear when we step on accelerator for high power when passing or uphill climbing. It lowers fuel efficiency a lot.

Think about this special occasion. When driver face the road situation for power, but battery level is minimum, the car cannot reach to the total high torque, engine + motor, because battery as low as for basic Hybrid function. Parallel mode is not available. Thus, the manual says, charge battery at least 20 minutes before you need, or save the power level before empty by Save function. This is the main purpose of Charge and Save mode. Not for all occasions but definitely not for fuel efficiency.

Good luck to all

Absolutely correct to enquire in this way. I don't think we need a lab to answer the questions, physics will tell you the answers, but I don't have time to answer right now. I think you can answer your own questions if you spend the time and effort.