Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

[PHEV07]

I am curious how you got a response from Mitsubishi. I have been trying and can't get anyone in USA to respond, I left email requests on their web site and tried calling their main line. This has been discouraging as I have had Mitsubishi products for over 20 years and they were all fantastic vehicles, all reliable and some living long ( more than 240K miles) lives.
I wonder what happens when the PHEV is plugged in outside in -30C ( -22F) temps? Could the trickle charge, assuming it is fully charged, be enough to raise the battery temperature?

I cannot comment on Mitsubishi Corporation responding to emails Phone calls or letter but can comment on the Battery Temperature increasing whole trickle charging.

Simple answer is NO.

We are presently getting temperatures of between -5 to -9'C and I have been checking the Battery Terature on the car Screen and when I compare tge Battery Terature prior to charging and 3/4 of full charge on Level 2, the Battery Temperature gauge only increase a small amount.

When driving and Heat Pump on, tgs Vattery Temperature does not increase at all.

I will try to post some photos tge next time I place car on charge.

Tge software upgrade will do nothing to allow warm up thd Battery.

The 2023 to 2025 PHEV may fail to start when Temperatures reach -30'C and lower because they do not have an Interior Main Battery Resistive Heater.

 

[PHEV07]

Prior to starting car this afternoon. Drove for 20 Minutes, air at outlet was 30'C interior heat reached 14'C but Battery Temp did not change.

Tonight I will Charge Battery and take photo of Battery Temp at the end of Charging.

 

[Grandad]

Hi, anyone tested and can verify if the software update works? I know it's a little bit colder now. I'm planning to buy a PHEV but thinking twice because of the no start issue during cold weather -30 or lower.

Don't do it! A quick search on "Mitsubishi battery class action" will provide details but once you hit the -30's youll be going to sleep wondering if you should book a cab to get to work. The software enchancement does not add heat - it simply slows the cooling rate but Mitsu itself says that left plugged in with the software updated for 10 hours at -30C the vehicle can't be relied on to start.

I wish somebody had clued me in before I dropped a bundle on a vehicle that is unfit for purpose where it is sold.

 

[Grandad]

I cannot comment on Mitsubishi Corporation responding to emails Phone calls or letter but can comment on the Battery Temperature increasing whole trickle charging.

Simple answer is NO.

We are presently getting temperatures of between -5 to -9'C and I have been checking the Battery Terature on the car Screen and when I compare tge Battery Terature prior to charging and 3/4 of full charge on Level 2, the Battery Temperature gauge only increase a small amount.

When driving and Heat Pump on, tgs Vattery Temperature does not increase at all.

I will try to post some photos tge next time I place car on charge.

Tge software upgrade will do nothing to allow warm up thd Battery.

The 2023 to 2025 PHEV may fail to start when Temperatures reach -30'C and lower because they do not have an Interior Main Battery Resistive Heater.

Mostly correct on the cold start. The trigger point for the battery to lock out is ~ -25C (battery temperature). Search "Mitsubishi battery class actyion" for details of the related class action claim and the experience of other owners.

I can verify that 3 separate attempts failed to get any engagement from Mitsu.

Watch out for "homebrew DIY fixes." Mitsubishi could seize on anything youy attemp as a fix to void your warranty. That's how they treat their customers.

Best of luck.

 

[tyleriv]

My experience to date with the updated PMU software.

Temperatures have been -21C to -6C over the last week. I've charged each night using the 120VAC charger and typically the charge is not complete. The traction battery should have been warmed by the charging function by the time I started my first drive. As an aside, when I picked up the car from servicing, the advisor noted the PMU was updated and that they had disabled battery cooling in one of the user settings. I'm not sure I heard that latter comment correctly.

1) My Battery driving distance seems to have dropped to about 45km/full charge down from about 70. Is this temperature or PMU related? I can't really comment on this change until ambient temperatures get back above 5C or so. I would typically achieve about 60+km/charge at these moderate temperatures and the ICE would never start in EV mode.

2) If I force EV mode on start up, it has occasionally started the ICE as well

3) Where the battery temperature was showing as left (lower temperature) of the quarter scale mark on the battery temperature display, it would refuse to enter EV mode with a message that the battery temperature was too low; it would always start the ICE.

4) When it was possible to switch to EV mode, the ICE would occasionally start, run for about 30 seconds then shut off. This is a new behaviour. In this situation, there was significant remaining charge showing for the battery and the battery temperature was past (right of) the quarter scale mark on the battery temperature display. You could tell when the ICE was going to be started by the action of the EV meter. The EV meter would dramatically react to any small request for power from the accelerator pedal and max out. When it maxed out, the ICE would start and the EV meter started to react normally. I did have the cabin heat on. Perhaps the cabin heat requests that the ICE start in order to support its function.

5) I'm now using substantially more fuel after the PMU update as the ICE is running a great deal more of the time. As an average, I would estimate that the fuel economy is at about 4-6 l/100km combined with using the battery. It is still much better than my non-hybrid vehicles. My EV/Fuel usage ratio is now about 45% down from my nominal 95+% in the past.

6) January to March of this year, I could prevent the ICE from starting except in situations of extreme cold where the battery was in reduced power mode. Now, with the PMU update, it seems the ICE can start at any time even when the battery is above its minimum temperature mode.

7) I've not experienced the PHEV System FAILURE message since the PMU update.

8) The Heat Pump is ineffective when the ambient temperature is lower than -10C. I suspect that this has nothing to do with the PMU update pe se, but I just wanted to note that observation. If you want a warm cabin, you have got to run the ICE.

Mitsubishi needs to retrofit a battery heater into these cars in order to meet the challenges of cold weather environments.

 

[PHEV07]

My experience to date with the updated PMU software.

Temperatures have been -21C to -6C over the last week. I've charged each night using the 120VAC charger and typically the charge is not complete. The traction battery should have been warmed by the charging function by the time I started my first drive. As an aside, when I picked up the car from servicing, the advisor noted the PMU was updated and that they had disabled battery cooling in one of the user settings. I'm not sure I heard that latter comment correctly.

1) My Battery driving distance seems to have dropped to about 45km/full charge down from about 70. Is this temperature or PMU related? I can't really comment on this change until ambient temperatures get back above 5C or so. I would typically achieve about 60+km/charge at these moderate temperatures and the ICE would never start in EV mode.

2) If I force EV mode on start up, it has occasionally started the ICE as well

3) Where the battery temperature was showing as left (lower temperature) of the quarter scale mark on the battery temperature display, it would refuse to enter EV mode with a message that the battery temperature was too low; it would always start the ICE.

4) When it was possible to switch to EV mode, the ICE would occasionally start, run for about 30 seconds then shut off. This is a new behaviour. In this situation, there was significant remaining charge showing for the battery and the battery temperature was past (right of) the quarter scale mark on the battery temperature display. You could tell when the ICE was going to be started by the action of the EV meter. The EV meter would dramatically react to any small request for power from the accelerator pedal and max out. When it maxed out, the ICE would start and the EV meter started to react normally. I did have the cabin heat on. Perhaps the cabin heat requests that the ICE start in order to support its function.

5) I'm now using substantially more fuel after the PMU update as the ICE is running a great deal more of the time. As an average, I would estimate that the fuel economy is at about 4-6 l/100km combined with using the battery. It is still much better than my non-hybrid vehicles. My EV/Fuel usage ratio is now about 45% down from my nominal 95+% in the past.

6) January to March of this year, I could prevent the ICE from starting except in situations of extreme cold where the battery was in reduced power mode. Now, with the PMU update, it seems the ICE can start at any time even when the battery is above its minimum temperature mode.

7) I've not experienced the PHEV System FAILURE message since the PMU update.

8) The Heat Pump is ineffective when the ambient temperature is lower than -10C. I suspect that this has nothing to do with the PMU update pe se, but I just wanted to note that observation. If you want a warm cabin, you have got to run the ICE.

Mitsubishi needs to retrofit a battery heater into these cars in order to meet the challenges of cold weather environments.

Thank you Tyler

This report was very well laid out and written.

Since I received my 2024 on Apr 8, 2024 the PMU update was already done and my car operates very similarly to yours.

In the Summer I was able to drive 95 to 100kms on pure EV. Now with the temp at -5 to -8'C I am getting about 45kms per charge. The ICE does kick in, as you have described but by letting tge ICE run for about 1 minute. I then turn the Engine off. Restart in EV mode and can drive the duration of my 8 km drive on EV Mode

As per your point (8)

I agree, the Cab Heat is too low to be comfortable when driving in EV Mode. When the ICE kicks on the heating is fine.

So..... I plan on getting a portable heater that draws between 400 to 800 Watts and connecting it to the 120V/1500W plug behind the lower arm rest/Console with a cord and lay the heater on the front Passenger floor on top of a fire retardant mat and turn on the car 1500W Invertor.

Drive the car in EV Mode to see how warm I can get the Cab to be.

I will report my findings

 

[DukeHunter]

Just got o the other forum that after starting the remote climate of the PHEV it will also start the ice? Just got this picture from there. Is this true? The temp outside was -16C and the climate was set to Hi.

 

[mellobob]

Don't do it! A quick search on "Mitsubishi battery class action" will provide details but once you hit the -30's youll be going to sleep wondering if you should book a cab to get to work. The software enchancement does not add heat - it simply slows the cooling rate but Mitsu itself says that left plugged in with the software updated for 10 hours at -30C the vehicle can't be relied on to start.

I wish somebody had clued me in before I dropped a bundle on a vehicle that is unfit for purpose where it is sold.

And, the adverts clearly stated that there was a battery heater. Big mistake by Mitsui.

 

[ronnieracoon]

And, the adverts clearly stated that there was a battery heater. Big mistake by Mitsui.

The software mod does help. Charge on super cold nights and you should be fine. give it a go first before giving up on the vehicle

 

[PHEV07]

Thank you Tyler

This report was very well laid out and written.

Since I received my 2024 on Apr 8, 2024 the PMU update was already done and my car operates very similarly to yours.

In the Summer I was able to drive 95 to 100kms on pure EV. Now with the temp at -5 to -8'C I am getting about 45kms per charge. The ICE does kick in, as you have described but by letting tge ICE run for about 1 minute. I then turn the Engine off. Restart in EV mode and can drive the duration of my 8 km drive on EV Mode

As per your point (8)

I agree, the Cab Heat is too low to be comfortable when driving in EV Mode. When the ICE kicks on the heating is fine.

So..... I plan on getting a portable heater that draws between 400 to 800 Watts and connecting it to the 120V/1500W plug behind the lower arm rest/Console with a cord and lay the heater on the front Passenger floor on top of a fire retardant mat and turn on the car 1500W Invertor.

Drive the car in EV Mode to see how warm I can get the Cab to be.

I will report my findings

My remote control failed to work again.

So I started the car in EV Mode , connected a 850W car warmer to the 120V / 1500W Inverter while I cleared the snow.

Outside temperature was -10'C drove in EV Mode for 5 kms with Interior Heat set to 20'C. Setting to 22'C makes no difference when EV Mode as the Heat Pump is only able to produce 25'C of heat at the outlet Vent. See photo.

Interior heat reached 12'C with the car warmer connected go the Car Invertor.

Without car warmer I could only get 0'C Interior heat when outside temp was -7'C.

 

[PHEV07]

Temperature hit -15'C today. I could not force car into EV Mode because I got a Battery too cold and Power Reduced Message.

I am not impressed with the 2024 at all. I never had this issue with my previous 2018 and 2022 models.

Even after driving for 10 minutes and the Air Temerature had reached 40'C out of the top Air Vent, turning off car and trying to restart in EV Mode, EV Mode start was not possible.

Not impressed at all.

See photos.

 

[tyleriv]

Just got o the other forum that after starting the remote climate of the PHEV it will also start the ice? Just got this picture from there. Is this true? The temp outside was -16C and the climate was set to Hi.

I've used remote climate control a number of times (with a 75% success - Often I have to relock my locked car in order to start the climate control - must be a connection thing). My interior climate is set to auto. I've never noted that the ICE had started while it was remote "warming" the car; I say "warming" because at these less than frigid (<-10C) temperatures, the Heat Pump just isn't efficient enough to warm the interior. However, as soon as I Start the car (EV mode or otherwise), the ICE tends always to start and then things warm up.

So the big question still remains; will the car start (ICE or otherwise), when the ambient temperature is < -25C? Parking overnight with the charger might just keep the traction battery warm enough to allow the car to operate but what will happen when the car is left in the parking lot at work where there is limited to no charging or the power outlets operate on a duty cycle basis (e.g. 10 min on, 20 min off)? Remember that these power outlets were designed for block heaters (400w), not chargers (1200w). Two chargers (cars) on the same circuit and *pop* goes the breaker - no power - no charge - no warm battery.

Sighhhh. All these little things, cold battery, climate system that can't run EV only, inability to start in very cold temps, poor remote connection say "Not quite ready for prime time" Mitsubishi. Why could they not have kept the battery warmer or, an auxillary conventional 12V ICE starter that runs off the 12V battery? The dealer "insisted" on the purchase of a block heater to support Alberta winters (and make them a few more $s) - what a joke. The ICE is warm but not the battery to start it! I'm not cynical...now potential legal action - don't get me started on lawyers. Or it could all work out - now I'm a cynical optimist - a walking oxymoron.

 

[DukeHunter]

Temperature hit -15'C today. I could not force car into EV Mode because I got a Battery too cold and Power Reduced Message.

I am not impressed with the 2024 at all. I never had this issue with my previous 2018 and 2022 models.

Even after driving for 10 minutes and the Air Temerature had reached 40'C out of the top Air Vent, turning off car and trying to restart in EV Mode, EV Mode start was not possible.

Not impressed at all.

See photos.

Have you plug it overnight? We're at -17c (feels like -22c) last night but I did not get turtle mode. I got '24 model GT-P Scheduled a charge mode overnight and also scheduled a Remote Climate as well.

I didn't get any problem with the car.

 

[PHEV07]

Drove car in Highway for 30 km each way. Battery Temperature continued to display Low Battery Temperature.

Heat Pump was useless when I remote started Heating. Outlet Vent still displayed-15'C on gauge even with Heat Pump running for 15 minutes. Outside temperature was -16'C

While ICE ran, Air Vent Outlet Temp got to 50'C.

More photos

 

[PHEV07]

Have you plug it overnight? We're at -17c (feels like -22c) last night but I did not get turtle mode. I got '24 model GT-P Scheduled a charge mode overnight and also scheduled a Remote Climate as well.

I didn't get any problem with the car.

I did not plug it in as this is the 1st time my 2024 Gt has seen Temperatures hit -15'C.

Basically just testing to see how car reacts under various conditions, for now.

My Battey was still 90% Full when I attempted to start Car in EV Mode.

 

[ronnieracoon]

I did not plug it in as this is the 1st time my 2024 Gt has seen Temperatures hit -15'C.

Basically just testing to see how car reacts under various conditions, for now.

My Battey was still 90% Full when attempted to start Car in EV Mode.

 

[ronnieracoon]

Please let us know when you do a test that involves charging overnight. That will settle the issue as per what mitsu is saying.

 

[PHEV07]

Today's Weather Forecast, and next 6 days.

 

[Grandad]

The software mod does help. Charge on super cold nights and you should be fine. give it a go first before giving up on the vehicle

Mitsubishi itself says that the software merely slows the rate of battery cooling - it doesn't add heat, and that it "may" help but they do not "guarantee" improved performance. They also say that at -30C, with the software "enhancement", and plugged in, the ehicle can't be relied on to start after 10 hours. This is not what reliability looks like.

 

[Grandad]

Please let us know when you do a test that involves charging overnight. That will settle the issue as per what mitsu is saying.

a single yes/no instance will not settle the issue. Indeed - and what Mitsu is saying is that the software tweak "may" help but will "not guarantee" a better result. The other way of saying that is that it may *not* help. Pigs may fly, but I haven't seen any do so lately.