Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Pressing "charge" shouldn't make a difference either.

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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
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Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
jaapv wrote:
That cannot have anything to do with it. As long as the battery can reach an SOC of over 30% full power will be full power.

I wish this was true, Jaap. Mine is restricted to about 50 kW even when full. Makes it very hard to drive pure ev mode even during very short trips. To me this is more a problem than the reduced range itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:10 am 
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Location: Netherlands
Bummer :(

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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
jaapv wrote:
Pressing "charge" shouldn't make a difference either.


Again I am not so sure jaapv. If Mitsi are going to "throttle" the drive battery to reduce degradation they should let the petrol motor take up the slack IMO.

Better than being stuck on incline (boat ramp) not being able move (without assistance from others). ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
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Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
anko wrote:
I wish this was true, Jaap. Mine is restricted to about 50 kW even when full. Makes it very hard to drive pure ev mode even during very short trips. To me this is more a problem than the reduced range itself.


So anko have you noticed a problem with pulling a trailer up an incline from a dead stop that you had no trouble with before or do you not tow any more because of your drive battery degradation?


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 3404
Location: Netherlands, Utrecht area
Trex wrote:
anko wrote:
I wish this was true, Jaap. Mine is restricted to about 50 kW even when full. Makes it very hard to drive pure ev mode even during very short trips. To me this is more a problem than the reduced range itself.


So anko have you noticed a problem with pulling a trailer up an incline from a dead stop that you had no trouble with before or do you not tow any more because of your drive battery degradation?

No issue towing (as I always use charge mode). I think max power is still there but the car tries to avoid it.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:33 am
Posts: 34
We ahve been charting battery SOH since new on 3 x 4Works first registered in April 2017. The first is due to hit the UK warranty level next year at 33,000 miles. Another one, which does less running, is due to hit the UK warranty level at 13,000 miles! :shock:

I have been corresponding with the dealer since the degradation level first became apparant, and they simply don't want to know. They say they have send log extracts off to Mitubishi and all is good. But yet, after 20,000 miles, the battery SOH is more than halfway to the warranty level of 70%, and the graphs we have been plotting since new, show no sign of levelling off. Just a steady downwards slope of SOH vs miles.

We are already starting to make noises (involving legal terms) on the warranty claims that will be coming next year. Sounds harsh, but to date, Mitsubishi and their dealer have done nothing about the warranty issues that have existed since the day they were brand new. Even at the 1 year service, they ignored all the issues, depsite being advised of them 3 months before the service. So I expect, that without starting now, and bringing some legal clout along, that 2 years after the batteries drop below 70%, Mitsubishi will still be procrastinating.

If I can figure out how to paste a JPG of our battery charts here, I will.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
Trex wrote:
anko wrote:
So anko have you noticed a problem with pulling a trailer up an incline from a dead stop that you had no trouble with before or do you not tow any more because of your drive battery degradation?

No issue towing (as I always use charge mode). I think max power is still there but the car tries to avoid it.


Thanks anko. I better go down to the boat ramp and check this out for myself. The son might just not have been pushing the accelerator hard enough as he did not know the car tries to "avoid" using max power.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Near Port Macquarie Australia
windymiller wrote:
But yet, after 20,000 miles, the battery SOH is more than halfway to the warranty level of 70%, and the graphs we have been plotting since new, show no sign of levelling off. Just a steady downwards slope of SOH vs miles.

We are already starting to make noises (involving legal terms) on the warranty claims that will be coming next year. Sounds harsh, but to date, Mitsubishi and their dealer have done nothing about the warranty issues that have existed since the day they were brand new.


So your degradation showing with lets just say EVbatmon or similar is approx 15% if I am not mistaken and you are are already threatening ("making noises") Mitsi. Sounds more than a "bit harsh" IMO at this stage. You should and will, I think, have to get your BMU recalibrated long before that.

As for your other complaints about "warranty issues" I do not know how it is where you live but here Mitsubishi do NOT own the dealerships. I suggest you try another dealer because from my experience some are definitely better than others. And yes I know from experience that it can be a hassle having to drive elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive battery degradation and replacement.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:33 am
Posts: 34
18% loss after 20,000 miles actually. But its the unrelenting downwards slope on the graphs since new, and the best fit line projection on the Excel graphs that show when the warranty level will be reached thats of concern. One of the vehicles is consistently showing 1.86% loss of battery capacity per 1000 miles driven, and that concerns us. Unless something changes about the slope of the degradation line, then we know fairly accurately when the warranty level will be reached.

The dealer has forwarded an email that they say is from Mitsubishi (hard to tell as they have removed the "From" address) which advises to;

[*]Always run the battery down to "empty" before recharging
[*]Always charge the battery fully to 100%
[*]Never charge the battery if its not already empty
[*]Never partially charge the battery to less than 100%

That was supposed to make a difference to the rate of battery degradation. But it hasn't. What it has done though is make a huge dent in fuel efficiency. You get home with 25% battery, but aren't "allowed" to recharge. So you set off the next day with a nearly empty battery, get a short distance, then the engine has to run.

That Mitsubishi (allegedly) are making recommendations through their dealer to try and reduce the rate of degradation, suggests to us that they acknowledge that this level of degradation is unacceptable

I have noted may posts on BMU re-calibration, but note that it is no magic cure that re-instates all that lost capacity. Perhaps adds a few % back in on the stated SOH for a short time. And this was not something that the dealer did, or even offered at the service just a - "we have taken logs and sent them to Mitsubishi who say that everything is just fine".


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