Camping- Please help ?.

OK we are keen campers nd just had a rather disappointing experience with our new PHEV. I assumed (all be it not stupidly ) that the aux battery was linked and charged by the main power pack. In other words that I could happily run a 12v out from the car to power fridges lights etc.

However instead of 10 days of smug "look at my car... oh really?... you need to bring a leisure battery with you?.. poor thing. " I had a flat car that would not start.

I find it a tad daft that despite being 80% charged and full of fuel the Aux battery can be run flat rendering the car stranded????

I was also under the impression that the 13pin trailer socket had a permanent DC out is this also running of AUX?

So I am looking for someone who knows how I can access the main battery in order to power my tent.

Any ideas?

You cannot, unless you have a Japanese version.
The 12V battery is rather small and is recharged from the main battery once daily.
If you drain it the 12V battery the computer systems cannot start up. You must jump-start the car in that case, but the good news is that just a small 12V spare battery (like for a domestic alarm system) will suffice.

jaapv said:

You cannot, unless you have a Japanese version.
The 12V battery is rather small and is recharged from the main battery once daily.

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Indeed - the 12v battery exists to run the burglar alarm and boot the computers - nothing else.

Well, it will run things like the interior lights and other 12V systems as well. But it does not have to power a starter motor so it can be smallish.

There is no work around? the 13pin electrics socket? Any way to access the main power? How do i get the japanese mod?

By living in Japan, it is not a mod but the configuration of the car.
No, there is no workaround. The 12 V system runs off the small battery.There are solar systems though.
Why do you need electricity anyway? Campingaz sells rather nice stuff.

However............whilst what these replies are no doubt true, elsewhere posters have been reassured that running 12v equipment will NOT flatten the battery because the sockets don't work when the ignition is off :? Are we to assume the OP here bypassed these via the tow bar electrics?

I really like the idea of being able to use the car to provide mobile or emergency power as it can in Japan. However the CHAdeMO interface seems to use a very proprietary communications protocol to enable connection to and manage the PHEV drive battery. I guess direct connection to the drive battery cannot be allowed so it doesn't get wrecked by someone trying to weld with it!.

So whatever externally connects to the PHEV has to support this protocol and as far as I could see ( last year ) the only folk signed up to the protocol were Japanese manufacturers. However the inverter product (for Japan domestic market ) seems to only output 1KW at 100V 60Hz. so anything connected to it would also have to support this frequency current and voltage range. Even so it could be useful for applications such as yours despite it having a horrible US style power socket. I then tried to research the Yen price I think it was over £1000, in which case a small silent inverter generator makes much more sense - which really defeats the whole point.

Mitsubishi have no plan to introduce their Japanese inverter into Europe. So personally I'd like to see a European manufacturer develop a compatible 230V 50hz inverter which can use EV drive battery power for travel use but also for power outages.

Of course one big advantage of having access to drive battery power is being able to re charge the minute PHEV 12V battery when the car can't start because it's brains are flat!........

Given the high predicted replacement cost of the traction battery, does it really make sense to put it through any more charge/discharge cycles than is absolutely necessary? Get a little Honda or Hyundai suitcase generator - they cost a few hundred quid and will run for hours on a bottle of petrol.

maby said:

Given the high predicted replacement cost of the traction battery, does it really make sense to put it through any more charge/discharge cycles than is absolutely necessary? Get a little Honda or Hyundai suitcase generator - they cost a few hundred quid and will run for hours on a bottle of petrol.

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Could you use one to charge the car?

greendwarf said:

maby said:

Given the high predicted replacement cost of the traction battery, does it really make sense to put it through any more charge/discharge cycles than is absolutely necessary? Get a little Honda or Hyundai suitcase generator - they cost a few hundred quid and will run for hours on a bottle of petrol.

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Could you use one to charge the car?

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What's the power drain on the 13A charging box supplied? The largest of the suitcase gennies is about 2.8kw - a bit touch and go for charging a PHEV, I suspect. If you want to charge the car on petrol, you are probably better off pressing the Charge button.

Unlikely as the car EVSE, the portable one, will want 2.2kW and most small generators will not go there. There is also the quality of the power (the manual specifically warns against using a generator) and he physics of energy in / energy out.

If you need to charge the car and can't get mains use the petrol engine - it's the best way and is no more expensive versus a generator (unless someone else is paying).

PeterGalbavy said:

Unlikely as the car EVSE, the portable one, will want 2.2kW and most small generators will not go there. There is also the quality of the power (the manual specifically warns against using a generator) and he physics of energy in / energy out.

If you need to charge the car and can't get mains use the petrol engine - it's the best way and is no more expensive versus a generator (unless someone else is paying).

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Agreed. You would certainly need one of the largest Honda or Hyundai suitcase gennies - and they are expensive things - particularly if you don't need the capacity for anything else. The modern gennies from the big name manufacturers do produce a decent sine wave output, but I don't think you would gain anything over using the car's internal petrol engine to charge up.

If your towing socket is wired up correctly, you will get a constant 12v output even when the car is switched off. I use mine all the time to illuminate my trailer whilst loading/unloading. You are limited to about 110 watts consumption I think. ( without looking at the manual again) It should be ok to run a fridge whilst towing a caravan.

It's possible to 'jump start' the car, if it's 12v battery is flat, by connecting the -ve of the jump leads to a bare chassis point or to the -ve terminal of the battery itself at the rear of the car. If you read the manual, it states that the +ve jump lead should be connected to the central large connecting point in the fuse/relay box. This point is covered by a red plastic cover that hinges up. Logically thinking, this connects directly to the 12v battery?? Mitsu recommends that you jump start the car this way. If my logic is correct, you should be able to use the said connections to take off 12v if the car's battery is charged. Even when the car is turned off. Again I remind you that the output from the battery is quite low. Mitsubishi tell us not to jump start another vehicle with ours. I guess this is because the 12v battery is only a small capacity?

greendwarf said:

Could you use one to charge the car?

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You will need a constant "clean" 2.5 kW output.
Check the specs.
One candidate would be the Honda EU 30i : not cheap, a bit on the heavy side.

Wuduslad said:

If your towing socket is wired up correctly, you will get a constant 12v output even when the car is switched off. I use mine all the time to illuminate my trailer whilst loading/unloading. You are limited to about 110 watts consumption I think. ( without looking at the manual again) It should be ok to run a fridge whilst towing a caravan.

It's possible to 'jump start' the car, if it's 12v battery is flat, by connecting the -ve of the jump leads to a bare chassis point or to the -ve terminal of the battery itself at the rear of the car. If you read the manual, it states that the +ve jump lead should be connected to the central large connecting point in the fuse/relay box. This point is covered by a red plastic cover that hinges up. Logically thinking, this connects directly to the 12v battery?? Mitsu recommends that you jump start the car this way. If my logic is correct, you should be able to use the said connections to take off 12v if the car's battery is charged. Even when the car is turned off. Again I remind you that the output from the battery is quite low. Mitsubishi tell us not to jump start another vehicle with ours. I guess this is because the 12v battery is only a small capacity?

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I guess you could jump start another PHEV - that will only need sufficient power to boot up the computers. Jumpstarting a conventional car would be completely out of the question - that would require a short burst of hundreds of amps - far beyond the capacity of the little 12v battery in the PHEV.

Well, hundreds, my charger/starter unit at home delivers 75 Amps as a starter current and that does just fine.

jaapv said:

Well, hundreds, my charger/starter unit at home delivers 75 Amps as a starter current and that does just fine.

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Is that starting a car with no battery installed, or is it providing a boost to a relatively flat battery? The Cold Cranking Current of even a moderate car battery can be 500A.

P.S. Just found this:


198 amps seems more accurate .
Part of Computerised bench test result from a new small diesel engine starter motor recently supplied is as follows:
Rated Power : 1.20 kW
Rated Voltage: 12.00 v
Free Run Speed : 3352 Rpm
Free Run Current : 41 amps
Max of Power : 1.25kW
Max of Torque : 14.07 Nm
Max of Current : 566 Amp ( Presume the starter was stalled at this point as would happen if engine locked for some reason)
Ripple : 18 Amp
Hold Current : 11 Amp ( solenoid)
The above figures were from a small japanese starter motor used on a two cylinder diesel engine.

maby said:

jaapv said:

Well, hundreds, my charger/starter unit at home delivers 75 Amps as a starter current and that does just fine.

Click to expand...

Is that starting a car with no battery installed, or is it providing a boost to a relatively flat battery? The Cold Cranking Current of even a moderate car battery can be 500A.

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Booster, that is true, but it would be the same when jump-starting.