16 Amp vs 30 Amp Charge Unit

[Ozukus]

So the PHEV is on order and I've organised the charge unit to be installed.

I looked at British Gas, however they were fairly unresponsive, so went with Charge Master who have been brilliant, and for the same unit no cost.

So now I have to consider do I go for the 16 Amp Charge Unit or the 30 Amp Charge Unit for an extra £95.

My understanding is that the Outlander PHEV will only draw 16 Amps regardless of the Charge Unit if using the non rapid charge socket, so technically there is no need to go for the 30 Amp unit.

However is it worth paying the extra £95 for the 30 Amp unit so that I have future proofed for improved technology when my lease runs out in 4 years and maybe can transition to all electric or a far better ranged PHEV.

The other thing if tecnology has moved on and 30 Amp is better, what if I want to swap but at that time OLEV has dried up, would that be a £1,000 exchange.

Thoughts around this appreciated, have a few weeks before I commit one way or the other.

 

[ian4x4]

I went for the Universal 30amp model with no attached cable.

It costs more, but with the right cable should fit any existing EV / PHEV car.

Although it sounds future proof, I am not sure how the units talk to the cars' internal charger, and if and when future protocols will change.

You takes your chance!

 

[maby]

Your guess is probably as good as anyone else's! The fact that you are getting the car on lease and will be replacing it after four years is possibly an important consideration - we are purchasing outright and will run it for at least 10 years - assuming that it lasts that long! We went for the 16A charging point - if EVs have taken off seriously ten years from now, I would expect that charging points will be far cheaper by then - there really is not very much inside one! Will it even last ten years? I'm not very optimistic!

Replacing the car four years from now could be a different question - EV technology could have moved on by then and there may be some value in having a 30A charger.

 

[Eggtastico]

I would future proof.
Consider that the 30 amp cable from your consumer unit to the charge station will be different (4mm rather than 2.5mm) than that of the 16amp cable.
Then there is a difference in the charging unit itself.

The reason you are getting a charging unit installed, rather than just getting an outside socket installed, is probably because of the grant on offer.
You can have a nice neat solution.
That grant is worth Approx £1k

So..... for £100, you are future proofing yourself and potentially saving yourself £900 if you need to replace it in the future.

I would have thought the extra expense is more to do with the armoured cable, rather than the charging unit.

 

[Sharky]

I had to make the same choice when it came to the instillation and opted for the 30amp. The installer recommended it, just to future proof myself. He had nothing to gain from the upgrade so it was pretty impartial advice. I also chose the one without the fitted cable for two main reasons, a) the cable was just a little too short and would have been suspended while charging putting constant weight on the PHEV socket. b) the unit with the plug attached stuck out some distance from the wall and wold have hindered me parking down the side of the house.

Now Having looked inside a unit with a cable attached, it would not be hard to swop the cable for a longer one or with a different plug if in the future things changed.

 

[Paddlepower]

Thanks for all the info!

Can I ask what kind of prices you have paid for the cable to fit the 30Amp charging unit. My costs are adding up as need to upgrade my fuse box :shock:

 

[Ozukus]

I am going for a tethered unit, since its a home install, which is an extra cost of £95 compared to free from Chargemaster.

The Mitsubishi Phev is designed to only draw 16 amps, so its just future proofing for 4 years time when the lease runs out.

 

[maby]

Thanks for all the info!

Can I ask what kind of prices you have paid for the cable to fit the 30Amp charging unit. My costs are adding up as need to upgrade my fuse box :shock:

About £140 plus VAT (assuming you pay it) - go to EVConnectors (https://evconnectors.com/ev-plug-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-cable) - the price difference between 16A and 32A is minimal. I have their 16A cable and build quality seems very good.

 

[Paddlepower]

Great thanks. I was told the 'normal' price was £300 but would be able to get me one for a cut price of £150. Maybe have a little word about that.

My thinking is that this cable can also be used out and about at some charging points, is this correct?

 

[Hypermiler]

You are correct re using the cable out and about - presume you are getting a type 2 (Mennekes) charger and a type 2 to type 1 (J1772) cable. Most non-chademo (i.e. not rapid) public chargers require you to supply a cable and they generally take a type 2 connection (whilst our car is type 1). Some public chargers also have a 13amp socket so you can use your Mitsu supplied cable.

The chademo rapid chargers always have a massive heavy tethered cable which goes in the other charging socket on the car (these are the ones you shouldn't use too often).
Cheers
H

 

[Paddlepower]

Thanks Hypermiler for that very clear explanation, now starting to understand.

Think I’m going for the non-tethered cable and a 30amp home charger from Rolec. I’m taking it that when you say not to use the chademo rapid chargers too often you mean not every day, but maybe once a week or so should be ok.

 

[jdsx]

It might be worth checking out this link http://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging/product/free-ev-home-charging-points
Fwiw, if I was starting again, I would go for a tethered type 1 30amp. IMO it's a pain to have to keep removing the lead for public charging - better to just buy a type 2 to type 1 cable to keep in the car. But I think it's worth having the 'upgraded' 30amp wiring....

 

[Paddlepower]

The point being as I've been advised by the installer is to try and future proof this by going for the un-tethered setup, allowing a friend to charge up using my charger or if you sell the house more chance of compatibility for the new owner.

But from the picture in your link it looks like best of both worlds with a tethered cable and a socket? That would be great if that's the case?

The hope is that the next car down the line will be able to use the same charger. But we all know there is more money to be made if they get away with introducing an 11 pin plug!

I can see why you would now opt to keep it simple with tethered at home and keep a cable in the car. The very first advice I got from Rolec was the tethered option.

I'm now so glad I've had to wait for my car, this can all so easily be rushed into. Have you not tried to get your installers to sell yours on and change your setup

 

[jdsx]

I don't think you get a tethered cable and a socket - it's one or the other. Of course in the end it's up to you. I think currently 0.01% of drivers have an EV and I doubt it's going to increase to more than 0.1% any time soon!

 

[Paddlepower]

Sure there's more going on with that charging unit?? Will call them and check. Maybe just the tethered cable and a 3 pin socket.

Thanks for your help, will look into tethered unit and extra cable in the car. Sounds much easier when it's raining

 

[maby]

I don't think you get a tethered cable and a socket - it's one or the other. Of course in the end it's up to you. I think currently 0.01% of drivers have an EV and I doubt it's going to increase to more than 0.1% any time soon!

The brochure seems to indicate that they only offer the tethered option - pity since it otherwise looks like a nice box. There are pictures on the web site that seem to show a cable plugged into the front face of it, but I suspect that is just the plug storage for the plug that goes into the car while it is not in use. Chargemaster do the same - there is an opening in the centre of the front face of the charging point - if you buy the untethered version, that opening contains the socket for the cable; if you buy the tethered version, the cable comes out of the side through a gland and there is a dummy socket in the face where you can put the plug while not in use - to protect it from rain and mud if it were to drop on the ground.

 

[Hypermiler]

It might be worth checking out this link http://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging/product/free-ev-home-charging-points
Fwiw, if I was starting again, I would go for a tethered type 1 30amp. IMO it's a pain to have to keep removing the lead for public charging - better to just buy a type 2 to type 1 cable to keep in the car. But I think it's worth having the 'upgraded' 30amp wiring....

That's what I've done (with a Chargemaster unit). I'm slightly future proofed with the 30 amp but got the type 1 tethered cable (it is very quick and convenient) plus a separate one to carry around. Whether it was the right decision will only really be known in a couple of years when we get our second plug-in car. I really wanted one with two outlets so you could time it for two cars but not sure these exist in the domestic market yet (a tethered and a socket would probably be ideal)...
H

 

[Paddlepower]

Thanks for the info Maby, you have it spot on. I have just spoken to Rolec, they do offer a home unit which is tethered and has an extra 3 pin socket but is not part of the Government scheme. There is also no way of upgrading within the scheme. No big problem.

Rolec did say I could always buy two units

 

[greendwarf]

I’m taking it that when you say not to use the chademo rapid chargers too often you mean not every day, but maybe once a week or so should be ok.

Check the manual - page 3-05 states that repeated rapid charge reduces capacity and suggests that it is fully charged by the "normal" method every 2 weeks to deal with this.

 

[Paddlepower]

I’m taking it that when you say not to use the chademo rapid chargers too often you mean not every day, but maybe once a week or so should be ok.

Check the manual - page 3-05 states that repeated rapid charge reduces capacity and suggests that it is fully charged by the "normal" method every 2 weeks to deal with this.

I don't have a manual or the car yet but thanks for pointing that out. I will be doing lots of small local trips so most likely doing slow home charges every few days. It looks like the rapid chargers are mainly at dealers and service stations so I would only need to use these every now and again. As this technology develops will be interesting to see how the batteries will cope with regular faster home charging. It makes sense to take things easy with the Outlander's batteries at you are starting off with a relatively short range.