Coasting ReGens

[Kurt]

What I will refer to as the "coasting regenerative breaking", the system controlled by the paddles, seems to be on continuous with my vehicle.
In other words, when I have my foot on the gas and I'm crusing down the highway at 60 miles an hour, and without taking my foot off the gas, my speed will decrease if I tap the increase paddle and the engine works harder. Shouldn't this only come on when you take your foot off the gas? Defaults to number 2, bad on fuel/mileage.

 

[AndyInOz]

If you want to cruise at B0 it's easy enough to tap the '-' control twice.

Changing the level of regenerative braking will change your current speed depending on how far down the accelerator pedal is pressed.

It is 'remapping' the pedal sensitivity.

Re the 'bad on fuel/mileage' part...

I'm still on the original brakes on my car, regenerative braking is much better for the environment.

 

[kpetrov]

What I will refer to as the "coasting regenerative breaking", the system controlled by the paddles, seems to be on continuous with my vehicle.
In other words, when I have my foot on the gas and I'm crusing down the highway at 60 miles an hour, and without taking my foot off the gas, my speed will decrease if I tap the increase paddle and the engine works harder. Shouldn't this only come on when you take your foot off the gas? Defaults to number 2, bad on fuel/mileage.

So when set to B5 and you take the foot of the accelerator your vehicle will suddenly goes in to hard regenerative braking without any control of fade-away sense...! Why would anyone want that?

When one set it to B5 and starts releasing the accelerator it will go seamlessly from acceleration to B0, B1, B2... to B5 when fully released. It is one pedal driving experience.

 

[Johny451]

So when set to B5 and you take the foot of the accelerator your vehicle will suddenly goes in to hard regenerative braking without any control of fade-away sense...! Why would anyone want that?

When one set it to B5 and starts releasing the accelerator it will go seamlessly from acceleration to B0, B1, B2... to B5 when fully released. It is one pedal driving experience.

Great for towing...

 

[littlescrote]

So when set to B5 and you take the foot of the accelerator your vehicle will suddenly goes in to hard regenerative braking without any control of fade-away sense...! Why would anyone want that?

When one set it to B5 and starts releasing the accelerator it will go seamlessly from acceleration to B0, B1, B2... to B5 when fully released. It is one pedal driving experience.

I always drive in B5 and with smooth use of the accelerator pedal can have anything between hard acceleration and hard regen braking, or coasting as though in B0. Just calibrate your foot vs your power gauge.

 

[Kurt]

To all who replied to my post, are we in agreement that driving around in a high paddle setting will trash your gas mileage? Unless you are driving on the highway with the cruise control on, in which casse it doesn't respond this way.
Otherwise, if the 'coasting regens' are on all the time, even when pressing down on the gas, then the higher the setting, the worse your gas mileage will be. It defaults to number two and I don't want to have to remember to set it to zero everytime I get in the car, and I do like having the number 2 on in regards to the car's responsive slowing when approaching an intersection, but I want it to come on when I take my foot of the gas, not while I have my foot pressing on the gas pedal.

 

[greendwarf]

To all who replied to my post, are we in agreement that driving around in a high paddle setting will trash your gas mileage? Unless you are driving on the highway with the cruise control on, in which casse it doesn't respond this way.
Otherwise, if the 'coasting regens' are on all the time, even when pressing down on the gas, then the higher the setting, the worse your gas mileage will be. It defaults to number two and I don't want to have to remember to set it to zero everytime I get in the car, and I do like having the number 2 on in regards to the car's responsive slowing when approaching an intersection, but I want it to come on when I take my foot of the gas, not while I have my foot pressing on the gas pedal.

Not at all (although mine is a 2014 UK model) the electric motors can't do two things at the same time. They are either applying turning force to the wheels or applying a braking effect, so paddling up has no actual effect if you are maintaining steady power through the accelerator - something that is almost impossible to do manually. This is why the paddles appear to have no effect when using the cruise control.

 

[evman77]

Great for towing...

It may be a one petal driving experience but I guess you have to gage if the drag in B5 holding the car back is generating any more power than the extra force needed from the battery to get the car moving. I suspect its not and I often drive in B0 when I'm on a flat where regen in nil. Try it. Next time you are on a flat, go into B0 and see how free the car moves.

 

[AndyInOz]

In case you haven't tripped over this already, you get to B0 by pulling the '-' paddle.

If you select 'D' the car is in B2.

In B0, I believe that the car is providing just enough current to stop the motors from applying any drag at all.

 

[Kurt]

Not at all (although mine is a 2014 UK model) the electric motors can't do two things at the same time. They are either applying turning force to the wheels or applying a braking effect, so paddling up has no actual effect if you are maintaining steady power through the accelerator - something that is almost impossible to do manually. This is why the paddles appear to have no effect when using the cruise control.

Except I'm talking about when I'm not running on the electric, gas, otherwise I wouldn't be talking about fuel efficiency. My driving and chargiing abilities are such that I am often running on gas. When I have my foot down on the accellerator, and the gas engine is humming, it works harder when in a higher paddle setting. Uses more gas.

 

[kpetrov]

I always drive in B5 and with smooth use of the accelerator pedal can have anything between hard acceleration and hard regen braking, or coasting as though in B0. Just calibrate your foot vs your power gauge.

I always drive in B5 as well. (One pedal driving)
Was just wandering how he expect B5 to work if not like currently designed. One cannot design the system to suddenly switch from acceleration to hard regen. B5 once let of the accelerator like he suggest.

 

[littlescrote]

It may be a one petal driving experience but I guess you have to gage if the drag in B5 holding the car back is generating any more power than the extra force needed from the battery to get the car moving. I suspect its not and I often drive in B0 when I'm on a flat where regen in nil. Try it. Next time you are on a flat, go into B0 and see how free the car moves.

There is no "drag" in B5 unless your foot is off the pedal to request regen! As already said, the motors cannot do both acceleration and regen at the same time!

 

[littlescrote]

Except I'm talking about when I'm not running on the electric, gas, otherwise I wouldn't be talking about fuel efficiency. My driving and chargiing abilities are such that I am often running on gas. When I have my foot down on the accellerator, and the gas engine is humming, it works harder when in a higher paddle setting. Uses more gas.

Makes no difference. Changing the pedal mapping (which is all the B setting does) doe snot make anything work harder. It just means that you have to press the pedal a little further to get the same power output. Nothing is working against the power.

 

[LowOnCash]

Hello Guys - Different regen selections will change the relationship of throttle pedal to motors percentage of power at a given speed. In other words, the motors will still deliver 100% power at full down pedal, regardless of B modes.

It's important to note:

The more you use regen - the less mileage you'll achieve from a battery charge

The longer you coast (no regen) the more mileage you'll achieve from a battery charge.

Both "Regen" & "Innovative Pedal" actually reduces range - While Innovative Pedal and high regen of B3-B5 can very helpful in stop and go traffic, it’s important to note that both of these features actually reduce the Outlander range for the simple reason it prevents the car from coasting. Free-coasting provides the most range benefits for the Outlander or in fact any EV.

Try to avoid using regen above B2 to allow coasting. Also keep in mind if the battery SOC is too high and B setting above B2 will start and run the engine.

If you were to Regen down an incline for a mile - The regen captured and stored in the battery would only propel the car roughly 1/10 of a mile. This occurs because there is multiple losses to convert the current back and forth from AC to DC, battery losses, inverter losses, motor losses, trans-axle losses, etc.

In other words, if you allowed your car to coast down a one mile steep incline “without regen” the vehicle could possibly free-coast nearly a mile. This would add another mile to the Outlander’s range. Where if you used regen to keep the car from accelerating down the hill, you would only store enough energy to recuperate 1/10 of a mile using regen.

On the other hand, regen can be the best feature of any hybrid since it captures waste energy every time you regen-coast to a traffic light or stop sign and apply the brakes. Regen also works to help maintain your speed on inclines and many other situations. It's the blend of free-coasting and proper use of regen which makes our Outlander's such a great Hybrid.

Regards - Mike

 

[evman77]

There is no "drag" in B5 unless your foot is off the pedal to request regen! As already said, the motors cannot do both acceleration and regen at the same time!

I believe that's not an accurate statement. Try driving, on the flat, in B5 with your foot on the accelerator, switch to B0 and see how your car jumps forward. Much less accelerator needed to maintain whatever speed you were going.

 

[AndyInOz]

I suspect that the car 'jumps forward' because the accelerator position sensor is re-mapped and more fuel is provided to the engine for the current pedal position.

Note that the description about coasting compared to regeneration down hill appears to be incorrect.

If you descend a hill, one mile, on B5, you have covered one mile without using power and added range to the battery.

If you descend a hill, one mile, on B0, you have covered one my without using power and without added range to the battery.

If you are descending a hill on B0, you probably also need to use your brakes to keep the car below the speed limit, this adds wear to the brakes.

There may be some circumstance where you descend a hill, under the speed limit and roll further at the base, while continuing to slow down and annoy everyone behind you, but I suspect those circumstances would be quite rare.

Driving on the flat, in zero traffic, hyper-miling in B0, could use less battery because re-generation is not a perfect system, but it's a lot of faffing about for very little gain.

 

[nrayanov]

B5 only makes sense for short trips in the city/town. For longer journeys, B0 is better. Of course, I play with the paddles to control speed on slopes and get back electricity but I mostly coast.

 

[greendwarf]

Hello Guys - Different regen selections will change the relationship of throttle pedal to motors percentage of power at a given speed. In other words, the motors will still deliver 100% power at full down pedal, regardless of B modes.

It's important to note:

The more you use regen - the less mileage you'll achieve from a battery charge

The longer you coast (no regen) the more mileage you'll achieve from a battery charge.

Both "Regen" & "Innovative Pedal" actually reduces range - While Innovative Pedal and high regen of B3-B5 can very helpful in stop and go traffic, it’s important to note that both of these features actually reduce the Outlander range for the simple reason it prevents the car from coasting. Free-coasting provides the most range benefits for the Outlander or in fact any EV.

Try to avoid using regen above B2 to allow coasting. Also keep in mind if the battery SOC is too high and B setting above B2 will start and run the engine.

If you were to Regen down an incline for a mile - The regen captured and stored in the battery would only propel the car roughly 1/10 of a mile. This occurs because there is multiple losses to convert the current back and forth from AC to DC, battery losses, inverter losses, motor losses, trans-axle losses, etc.

In other words, if you allowed your car to coast down a one mile steep incline “without regen” the vehicle could possibly free-coast nearly a mile. This would add another mile to the Outlander’s range. Where if you used regen to keep the car from accelerating down the hill, you would only store enough energy to recuperate 1/10 of a mile using regen.

On the other hand, regen can be the best feature of any hybrid since it captures waste energy every time you regen-coast to a traffic light or stop sign and apply the brakes. Regen also works to help maintain your speed on inclines and many other situations. It's the blend of free-coasting and proper use of regen which makes our Outlander's such a great Hybrid.

Regards - Mike

View attachment 1030

Note that even when coasting in B0 there is some battery use to prevent the motors dragging!

 

[greendwarf]

Except I'm talking about when I'm not running on the electric, gas, otherwise I wouldn't be talking about fuel efficiency. My driving and chargiing abilities are such that I am often running on gas. When I have my foot down on the accellerator, and the gas engine is humming, it works harder when in a higher paddle setting. Uses more gas.

Do you realise that most of the time you are running on gas, the engine is merely acting as a generator to power the electric motors not drive the wheels?

 

[kpetrov]

I believe that's not an accurate statement. Try driving, on the flat, in B5 with your foot on the accelerator, switch to B0 and see how your car jumps forward. Much less accelerator needed to maintain whatever speed you were going.

Au contraire it is very accurate statement. The electric motor cannot propel and regenerative brake simultaneously.

It is like to say on conventional gas engine you are stepping on the accelerator and the engine is working like a motor brake the same time!

Even if it was possible (with additional motor dedicated only for regenerative braking) why would any Mitsubishi engineer provide the function of propelling and breaking simultaneously!? Nonsense.

The car jumps forward cause like AndyInOz said. The accelerator is remapped and you simulated pressing it further by changing B settings.
Changing B settings up moves the line to the right on the graph.

(why url linked images are not shown!?)
https://www.researchgate.net/public...des-a-Conventional-control-b-single-pedal.png