Electrical Fault / Car wont start

[geoffshep69]

My wife has my car today to drive to Yorkshire, but cant get it to start.

Pressing the power button makes it start up as normal but it then goes off again. Wipers operating randomly and lights flashing as well.

Plugging in the charger doesn’t work either, no click or charging light come on.

Any bright ideas or is this a definite case of calling out Mitsubishi ??

 

[jaapv]

Yellow triangle and text on the dash?

 

[geoffshep69]

Apparently dash lights up as normal and then everything goes off so it is blank.

Lights are flashing, as is the park light (the green light beside gear lever) but these wont go off even when power switched off.

Have called Mitsubishi, they are on their way, hopefully nothing too serious.

 

[jaapv]

Possibly stupid question: She did not forget to push the brake pedal?

 

[geoffshep69]

She says that she did push the brake pedal, and turned on the heating to defrost the car. Charge cable was still attached, so the warning message came up, but she ignored it and went back into the house. When she left it the fan had started operating as normal.

When she went back out, the fan wasn’t operating, but lights and wipers were operating randomly and it wouldn’t operate as normal.

She has tried various combinations of plugging and unplugging, pressing power button with and without the brake pedal, but nothing much happening, although a few more warning messages have now appeared, including the one which says EV system service required.

She is worried that she has done something wrong, but I’ve said that even if she pressed the wrong button, did or didn’t press the brake, unplugged the cable, etc. then it still shouldn’t cause the whole system to screw up, so there is obviously something wrong with it.

Mitsu specialist is on his way so we’ll see what he has to say !

 

[jaapv]

Keep us posted!

 

[Regulo]

I'd get him to check the main fuse, as here: http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2859

It sounds a weird one.

 

[geoffshep69]

Mitsu guy has arrived, and apparently it is because the auxiliary battery is completely flat. Not quite sure how that has happened, I thought that the main traction battery provided power to charge the auxiliary battery ?

For some reason it seems like whatever my wife did this morning has flattened the auxiliary battery, and because it is completely flat the guy has said that it can’t ‘power itself up’ to draw charge from the traction battery ? He has charged it up and got it started, so hopefully all is now well, but I’ve asked my wife to ask him what she should have done this morning, i.e. if she wanted to defrost the car before driving away, should she have pressed the brake pedal or not when powering it up ?

Either way, something seems wrong as whatever she did should not have caused this problem ?

 

[jaapv]

As the car requires very little power from the 12V battery to start up one can hook up a smallish 12V battery (like for a home alarm) to the jump start locations <find them in the manual>. Possibly a trickle charger would be sufficient.

 

[elm70]

She says that she did push the brake pedal, and turned on the heating to defrost the car. Charge cable was still attached, so the warning message came up, but she ignored it and went back into the house. When she left it the fan had started operating as normal.

When she went back out, the fan wasn’t operating, but lights and wipers were operating randomly and it wouldn’t operate as normal.
...

How can you operate defrost without starting the car or without programming it on the MMCS ?

Interesting, every time the car is charged, it does charge the 12V lead acid battery (which is a 36A, that is quite big for what it does have to cover)

Maybe your 12V battery is defected, and does not keep much charge.

Still, I can't figure it out what could have drain a 12V battery in few hours ... the defrost functions don't work from 12V ... at least not the electric heater .. but heated seats and other parts maybe are on the 12V power

One more thing .. once fully discharge a 12V lead acid battery .. this get "damaged" .. or better it will have now limited capacity and maybe even faster self discharging.

PS: In theory as soon as the car is switch on (start button + foot on brake) ... the 300v battery pack is charging the 12V battery .. so .. very odd indeed what did happen to you

 

[jaapv]

Very simple to drain it - just leave the running lights and interior lighting on
And - as you say, a battery van break down.

 

[elm70]

Very simple to drain it - just leave the running lights and interior lighting on
And - as you say, a battery van break down.

:shock:

I will add this to the list of car bugs then :ugeek:

Anyhow .. when I put my car in sort of "stand by" mode ... (pressing the start button but not foot on brake) ... yes .. it does start the outside light (but not the inside one) .. that is quite odd ... also I would expect that after X minutes, especially if nobody is sitting in the car .. it should automatically switch off and lock the car (lock the car only if keys are not inside)

Anyhow 36A battery .. should need well over 4/5 hours before get consumed by the car lamps

It is also possible that car 12V battery iis in bad shape ... furthermore .. on my car I see that this 12V get charged to 14.7V that is not a healthy way to charge 6 elements/cells lead acid battery

 

[geoffshep69]

I thought I had read somewhere that as long as you have charge in the main traction battery then it is not possible to flatten the auxiliary battery. Clearly I am incorrect, maybe I am getting mixed up with something to do with a once a day procedure whereby the auxiliary battery is topped up from the traction battery ?

So for future reference, what is the correct procedure to follow if someone wants to defrost their car for 10 minutes before they drive away, and with the car still connected to the mains ? If you don’t have the app, how do you do this ? Surely you don’t have to get in the car, mess about in MMCS and set a timer ? I still don’t see what she did wrong today, if the car remained connected to the mains then shouldn’t it have drawn power from the mains to operate the heater ? Or, at worst, drawn it from the traction battery ?
 

 

[jaapv]

Very simple to drain it - just leave the running lights and interior lighting on
And - as you say, a battery van break down.

:shock:

I will add this to the list of car bugs then :ugeek:

Anyhow .. when I put my car in sort of "stand by" mode ... (pressing the start button but not foot on brake) ... yes .. it does start the outside light (but not the inside one) .. that is quite odd ... also I would expect that after X minutes, especially if nobody is sitting in the car .. it should automatically switch off and lock the car (lock the car only if keys are not inside)

Anyhow 36A battery .. should need well over 4/5 hours before get consumed by the car lamps

It is also possible that car 12V battery iis in bad shape ... furthermore .. on my car I see that this 12V get charged to 14.7V that is not a healthy way to charge 6 elements/cells lead acid battery

Yes - it would -just leave it in your garage overnight with the interior lights switched on manually (i.e. automatic switchofff disabled) and parking lights on. I would call this user error - not a bug btw. I can do this on any car.
When not running it will charge the 12V battery from the main battery - but only once a day.
Anyway, as for the charging voltage, I do not see much out of the ordinary there - I have had plenty of cars with voltage meters and (obviously) lead-acid batteries and all of them would charge at someting like 14-15 V.
Note that the trusty Smiths Battery Condition meter has the green zone running well over 15V.

 

[anko]

In Ready mode, the 12 volt battery is topped up from the main drive battery. In ACC mode it is not. I have experienced this many times when I was running my OBD debug sessions for hours in a row

Funny: when the neighbour rings the doorbell to tell you your lights are still on, try to explain him, either the headlights or the DLR's must be on in order to charge the battery ;-)

Anyway, it is pretty much the same as with a normal car: with the engine running, the battery is charged. In ACC mode, it is drained.

@ geoffshep69 , when she said she was defrosting the car, did she mean "pre-heat"? Or did she mean "run the front / rear windshield defrosters"? Because that might explain why the battery got exhausted in ACC mode.

 

[geoffshep69]

@ geoffshep69 , when she said she was defrosting the car, did she mean "pre-heat"? Or did she mean "run the front / rear windshield defrosters"? Because that might explain why the battery got exhausted in ACC mode.

I guess thats the nub of my question. She doesnt have the app, so she went out yesterday to the car, pressed the power button (while pushing the brake pedal) and turned on the heater manually to warm the car up. The charging cable was still connected, so she assumed that it would draw power from the mains (similar to pre-heating). The engine didnt start, presumably because charging cable was still connected.

When she came back 15 minutes later, everything was dead and the strange behaviour was happening.

You mentioned that in Ready mode, the main battery will top up the 12V battery, so I am guessing that the car was not in Ready mode, even though she pressed the brake pedal while pushing the power button ?

I thought that the main heating and AC system drew power from the main traction battery, rather than the 12V battery ? So even if it wasn't drawing power from the mains, it shouldnt have impacted the 12V battery. She did have the heated seats on (not sure about rear window defroster) but would those systems fully drain the 12V battery in as little as 15 minutes ?

I'm still unclear what the correct procedure should be if one wants to warm up the car for 15 minutes before driving away, by drawing mains power but without using the app or MMCS.

 

[elm70]

@ geoffshep69 , when she said she was defrosting the car, did she mean "pre-heat"? Or did she mean "run the front / rear windshield defrosters"? Because that might explain why the battery got exhausted in ACC mode.

I guess thats the nub of my question. She doesnt have the app, so she went out yesterday to the car, pressed the power button (while pushing the brake pedal) and turned on the heater manually to warm the car up. The charging cable was still connected, so she assumed that it would draw power from the mains (similar to pre-heating). The engine didnt start, presumably because charging cable was still connected.

When she came back 15 minutes later, everything was dead and the strange behaviour was happening.

You mentioned that in Ready mode, the main battery will top up the 12V battery, so I am guessing that the car was not in Ready mode, even though she pressed the brake pedal while pushing the power button ?

I thought that the main heating and AC system drew power from the main traction battery, rather than the 12V battery ? So even if it wasn't drawing power from the mains, it shouldnt have impacted the 12V battery. She did have the heated seats on (not sure about rear window defroster) but would those systems fully drain the 12V battery in as little as 15 minutes ?

I'm still unclear what the correct procedure should be if one wants to warm up the car for 15 minutes before driving away, by drawing mains power but without using the app or MMCS.

If in 15min the 12V goes down ... it sound a bug or some sort of defect

About the procedure ... why not use the MMCS ?
The only downside is that APP and MMCS can't work together, at least on mine I have to disable car WiFi for make MMCS program to work .. what I use .. I set the timer in the MMCS, for have 10min of defrost or heat up before starting the car.

Alternative solution would be to hack the car key for enable the button for activate the start of heat/defrost/ac

I never did though of your procedure for defrost the car .. with sort of ready in block mode due to charging ongoing ... now that I know your experience I will not use it

 

[geoffshep69]

@ geoffshep69 , when she said she was defrosting the car, did she mean "pre-heat"? Or did she mean "run the front / rear windshield defrosters"? Because that might explain why the battery got exhausted in ACC mode.

I guess thats the nub of my question. She doesnt have the app, so she went out yesterday to the car, pressed the power button (while pushing the brake pedal) and turned on the heater manually to warm the car up. The charging cable was still connected, so she assumed that it would draw power from the mains (similar to pre-heating). The engine didnt start, presumably because charging cable was still connected.

When she came back 15 minutes later, everything was dead and the strange behaviour was happening.

You mentioned that in Ready mode, the main battery will top up the 12V battery, so I am guessing that the car was not in Ready mode, even though she pressed the brake pedal while pushing the power button ?

I thought that the main heating and AC system drew power from the main traction battery, rather than the 12V battery ? So even if it wasn't drawing power from the mains, it shouldnt have impacted the 12V battery. She did have the heated seats on (not sure about rear window defroster) but would those systems fully drain the 12V battery in as little as 15 minutes ?

I'm still unclear what the correct procedure should be if one wants to warm up the car for 15 minutes before driving away, by drawing mains power but without using the app or MMCS.

About the procedure ... why not use the MMCS ?

She just gets in the car, presses the power button and drives. She doesnt play with any settings or look at any information, so there is zero chance of her figuring out how to go into the MMCS menus and set a timer.

I have to admit, when she told me what she had done, I would probably have done the same if I didnt have access to the app or MMCS.

 

[elm70]

She just gets in the car, presses the power button and drives. She doesnt play with any settings or look at any information, so there is zero chance of her figuring out how to go into the MMCS menus and set a timer.

I have to admit, when she told me what she had done, I would probably have done the same if I didnt have access to the app or MMCS.

So, she did no use MMCS just because she is not familiar with ... same for the app ...

I think the solution is add a 2nd device for use the apps .. or spend 2 minutes for show how MMCS set the timer for clima control

Anyhow ... for me .. knowing that starting the car and heat the car, would cause to start the ICE .. it would have not been my first idea for it. Anyhow ... I think your case of starting the car, have it connected to the charger, and start the heating ... is something that possibly has not been tested/designed from mitsubishi .. as well, we had a report from a different PHEV user that that he could not heat the car while sitting on it and charging the car on the same time (at least he did not report to had issues trying it)

Anyhow ... best solution are the most simple one ... a modified key with a 4th button for immediate start the clima control would do the job quite effectively

Else ... using the apps is what works for most of the people

(PS: personally I can't use WiFi on my PHEV, since I have not the password for it ... so .. I'm always programming on MMCS .. which has some limitation since it start only at 10min .. and it is only lasting 10min ... that could be not enough if temperature is very low .. as well .. comfort wise .. I manage only to remove ice on the windows (so no need to scratch my car) but inside temperature after 10min of "defrost" is only +3 when outside is around -2 .. so .. only 5 deg win after 10min of electric heating ... using the app will be better since there is possible to set up to 30min )