Engine doesn't start when ev range reaches 0

[Nikko16]

Hello,

A few years now we own a outlander phev 2013 intense.
Since 3 weeks ago we are having problems with the car. When the battery reaches 0 range, sometimes the engine won't start automatically, only when we push the acceleration pedal completely down the engine will start with a lot of rpm. No fault codes where saved, and only one time the car showed a turtle in orange with the message speed limited.
Also when the car is stationary and the battery reaches zero miles range the engine will start but goes also immediately off and on again. This will continue endlessly.
When we drive in charge mode there are no problems, the engine runs normal, and also of course when completely charged there are also no problems.
Last week I have checked and changed the spark plugs but this made no difference.
Next week a mechanic is going to check everything but doesn't have a clue what this could be.
It looks like the car knows there is no range left and the signal is given to the engine but somehow the engine won't start correctly or fast enough.
Is anyone familiar with this problem?
Kind regards.

 

[AndyInOz]

Well... I don't think you can rely on the guessometer that much.

If the guessometer says 0, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have zero range.

What happens if you press the 'Charge' button? Does the engine immediately start?

If the engine is having starting problems, then you're down to usual (any) engine's problems.

1. How old is the fuel?
2. Are the fuel lines blocked?
3. Are the injectors working properly?
4. What's the condition of the spark plugs?

The absence of any fault codes suggests to me that your issue is most likely just the guessometer guessing.

 

[kenny256]

Also what is the age and condition of your 12V battery? That is something to consider when troubleshooting issues. An old weak or worn out 12V battery can cause a multitude of issues with ECUs and relays, although usually a DTC is thrown for a low voltage fault.

 

[kpetrov]

Since the engine works normally in Charge mode there are no problems with the engine itself.
It is all on engine and battery management - control. Regular mechanic won't be able to do anything with that.

How is the engine performing in Save mode?

Why is one actually driving the battery to 0 until the final leg of a trip going to charging station!?

Also what is the age and condition of your 12V battery? That is something to consider when troubleshooting issues. An old weak or worn out 12V battery can cause a multitude of issues with ECUs and relays, although usually a DTC is thrown for a low voltage fault.

If the car was already started and in Ready mode the 12V battery can't be the culprit.

 

[Nikko16]

Thanks for answering. Fuel shouldn't be any problem I think because otherwise it should also not work properly in charge mode. As I mentioned earlier the spark plugs are just a week old. It was a little trip to the workshop where I changed the plugs. Before changing the plugs the car acted accordingly as I mentioned earlier. Right after we changed the plugs the car functioned properly, with zero electric range. A couple of hours later on another trip te car had the same issues again. I also don't think that the 12v battery is an issue because that should also generate problems with the initial start of the engine. Save modus I did not try yet.

 

[Nikko16]

Why shouldn't I drive until zero range. Before I also did this, it ain't a ev it's a phev, when I reach zero ev range the engine must start normal so I can drive until I reach my destination. Otherwise the car doesn't fulfil its purpose don't you think?

 

[Nikko16]

Fuel lines and fuel injectors are not checked yet. The mechanic mentioned also the intake of false aire somewhere could be a problem.
In my guessing, could there be a relation that the guessometers range is to positive and that the signal to the start the engine is given to late and therefore the engine out of protection doesn't start according to plan?
Maybe worth mentioning, a couple of weeks before the problems I did a reset of the bmu, with the lidquist method. But in my opinion if this has any relation to the problems now, why didn't this happen straight away?

 

[kenny256]

...
Maybe worth mentioning, a couple of weeks before the problems I did a reset of the bmu, with the lidquist method.
...

Yes definitely worth mentioning in the first post.

 

[Nikko16]

Yes but last year I also did this reset and no problems after that also. And in my opinion if this is the beginning of the problems, why did this only start a couple of weeks after it, and not immediately.
I still find it strange, car is giving the signal to start the engine, but somehow the engine is not reacting soon enough so therefore it stays out.
Why, if it is ev related, is the engine going of and on every two seconds, sounds to me more like a problem with the engine itself.

 

[AndyInOz]

How do you know that the car is signalling engine start?

 

[Nikko16]

That's my assumption because as I explained when stationary and battery reaches zero range, achieved by having the ac on and car stationary, the engine does turn on but doesn't run properly and goes immediately of again. After that it turns immediately on again and of again and so on.

 

[kenny256]

Over the past 10 years i have done troubleshooting and repairs on hundreds of EVs with electrical problems. A healthy 12V battery is so very much more important for an EV than a regular gas car with an alternator. The EV uses the main HV pack thru a DCDC converter to charge the 12V; the load and duty cycle of the 12V for an EV is much different than the starter battery of a gas car; the wear and degradation is much different also in that a weak battery can appear to function properly (even when down to only 5% capacity) right up to the end when it falls off the cliff.

Believe this or not as you wish, but until you check and verify the state of health thru specific gravity or capacity discharge testing, then you have an unknown major factor that could be a contributory culprit. Once the power supply is verified then other areas can be investigated.

 

[AndyInOz]

That's my assumption because as I explained when stationary and battery reaches zero range, achieved by having the ac on and car stationary, the engine does turn on but doesn't run properly and goes immediately of again. After that it turns immediately on again and of again and so on.

Hmm...

So the engine runs fine when in 'Charge' mode.
It runs fast when you have your foot down. (as expected)

Can you provide more information about the symptoms when it doesn't run properly?
(To be more specific, I'd expect coughing, spluttering, running fast and slow if you have fuel problems).

I agree that you should eliminate the 12V battery as the cause of the problems.

 

[kpetrov]

Fuel lines and fuel injectors are not checked yet. The mechanic mentioned also the intake of false aire somewhere could be a problem.
In my guessing, could there be a relation that the guessometers range is to positive and that the signal to the start the engine is given to late and therefore the engine out of protection doesn't start according to plan?
Maybe worth mentioning, a couple of weeks before the problems I did a reset of the bmu, with the lidquist method. But in my opinion if this has any relation to the problems now, why didn't this happen straight away?

It is not the fuel lines, it is not the injectors, it is not the air intake. There is nothing wrong with all of that and your engine is fine.

You should have started with the BMU reset, that's the culprit. 100%
Don't worry about your engine, you should worry about your battery, you are destroying it.
Lying to the vehicle it has a brand new battery and overcharging and over-discharging it killing it slowly.
I don't know how your vehicle didn't fall in to a turtle mode yet before having issues starting the engine.

Basically your engine is turning on and off since your BMU could not figure what's wrong... "thinking" the battery should be ok but it is actually over-discharged.

I suggest you do a proper BMU Reset and DBCAM, until then never fully charge and discharge the battery.

 

[Nikko16]

Thanks so far for all the advise. Brought the car this morning to the local garage. I'm not in the possession of MUT software, so explained the mechanics what could be the main problem and what therfore the solution should be. Hopefully after they preform bmu reset and dbcam, there won't be any issues any more. I will post an update later on.

 

[kpetrov]

Local specialized Mitsubishi garage or a regular one?

If you have an OBD-II adapter post the watchdog battery result after.

 

[Marka]

Thanks so far for all the advise. Brought the car this morning to the local garage. I'm not in the possession of MUT software, so explained the mechanics what could be the main problem and what therfore the solution should be. Hopefully after they preform bmu reset and dbcam, there won't be any issues any more. I will post an update later on.

Hi,
Have you found where is the problem? I have exactly the same thing. Then I brought car to official Mitsubishi workshop problem didn't pop up. There was no errors, 12 V battery ok, but I don't think they checked it properly. And yesterday the same thing happens.

 

[schmungel]

For mine, it was the low pressure petrol pump. It’s been fine since that was replaced. I’d recommend looking on HEVRA to find an EV specialist garage

 

[dg2642]

Itcwas thec12v battery (in the boot I believe). Got rid of said vehicle 2 years ago. Got a kia eniro instead.

 

[littlebigcj]

I’m having the same issue on my 2013! Just bought it from a dealer the other week. Imported from Japan this year. Battery has 97% SOH so it must have been replaced recently.

Every time the car gets to zero range it will just die. No warnings at all. The engine can kick in for a second but instantly stop causing the car to jolt forward and back.

Charge and save mode work fine and the engine can start normally when driving with some battery left.

After a short period I restart the car with zero range it will start the engine as expected and keep running and the car drives normally.

It seems as though I’m having exactly the same issue when driving and the battery reaches zero for the first time it doesn’t send the “start the engine” signal to the engine.