EV drive mode not working in winter cold

[Grafikstudion]

Cannot the plug-in hybrid handle the winter cold?

Yesterday I noticed something interesting and at the same time worrying. The EV drive mode did not work properly at -20 degrees celsius (-4 F). Lets start from the beginning ...
To heat the interior of the car in winter and cold temperatures the petrol engine has to generate the heat. Now it can feel like a loss to have an electric car that needs to use the gasoline engine in winter. You can then use the pre-heater to heat the cabin before leaving. The heater is using the car's driving battery to power the heater, therefore it is best to do this during charging so as not to jeopardise the range on EV drive. If you have a 16A charger it will charge at the same rate as the pre-heater uses battery. If you have a 10A charger it will not keep up with the required charging.
I usually pre-heat for 30 min and the heat produced lasts for 15 minutes, depending on outside temperature, without additional heat from the petrol engine, especially when using the seat heaters and steering wheel heating.

To ensure that the petrol engine is not enabled you can put the ventilation and heating system in the OFF position.

Yesterday, for the first time this winter the temperature was -20 degrees Celsius (-4 F). I had had my Outlander in garage overnight where the temperature was -6 degrees C (21 F). I used the pre-heat for 30 minutes just before departure. With EV drive only I drove toward Soderhamn, 25 km south and started the ventilation and heating system when I got half way to bring up the heat in the car again. At that time the petrol engine started, as it should. When I reached the desired temperature I turned the ventilation and heating system off again and the petrol engine was shut down and I ran only on EV drive.

During the day the car is parked in Soderhamn in -20 degrees temperatures. When I´m, about to leave for home the car is fully charged and before leaving I pre-heated the car in 30 minutes. HOWEVER when I try using the same procedure as before with the ventilation and heating system switched off I didn't manage to get the petrol engine to stop. The entire trip is made with the engine running and the only time it shuts off for a short period is in a steep downhill. The battery meter shows full but the meter for the estimated range for EV drive shows just three strokes. No numbers. When I get home is the battery meter is full. The route I run, I run at a speed of 40-65 mph The symbols of energy flow displays the arrows between the gasoline engine and battery and battery to wheel the whole trip. I don't get why it's like this, the battery is full so the petrol engine should not have to charge the battery and I have the ventilation off.


This morning it was-10 degrees outside and I had had the car parked in the garage overnight. The battery was not fully charged and I wasn't running for the heater because I got an error message when I tried to start it. I put a car heater in for 10 min instead. Also this time I was able to make the whole journey in pure EV mode without starting the petrol engine.

Read my Outlander PHEV blog for more details, tests, and reviews. http://www.pluginhybrid.se

 

[jaapv]

I cannot imagine driving in -20 with the heating off... I guess the temperature in the battery compartment was too low. Li-Ion batteries don't function, or in a very limited way, in those temperatures.

 

[Grafikstudion]

I cannot imagine driving in -20 with the heating off... I guess the temperature in the battery compartment was too low. Li-Ion batteries don't function, or in a very limited way, in those temperatures.

The cabin was still varm from the pre-heat and I engaged the ventilation after a while to maintain the temperature, and with heated seats and steering wheel its not that cold.
I also noticed that the regenerative braking didn´t slow the car down as much as usual on B5, perhaps because of the cold.

 

[maby]

I cannot imagine driving in -20 with the heating off... I guess the temperature in the battery compartment was too low. Li-Ion batteries don't function, or in a very limited way, in those temperatures.

Somewhere in the user manual there is a section on operating temperature limits - both high and low. I suspect that -20 is below the lower level of operation for the car. I do recall looking at the figures at the time and thinking that the lower limit was sufficiently high to be a bit of a problem in some parts of Europe.

 

[Titan]

Had a look in the manual it says below -15C start up and driving will be affected. Specifically motor output affected and limited driving alert displayed. Also regenerative braking will also be limited.

 

[Grafikstudion]

Had a look in the manual it says below -15C start up and driving will be affected. Specifically motor output affected and limited driving alert displayed. Also regenerative braking will also be limited.

Well, there you have it. Luckily its not -20 degrees C that often. Today it was - 15 degrees and I managed to make the 15 mile drive home on EV drive most of the time.

 

[gwatpe]

And I thought seeing the "Roads may be ICY" warning was cold enough. :lol:

 

[greendwarf]

However, this suggests that a pure EV car wouldn't work at all - so actually a plus point for the PHEV

 

[jaapv]

It would probably need (pre)-heating of the batteries. I'm not sure whether that is provided on pure-EV vehicles.

 

[gwatpe]

The Tesla has battery cooling and battery heating, so others have considered the problem.

 

[greendwarf]

The Tesla has battery cooling and battery heating, so others have considered the problem.

But if the problem, at temp extremes (as described here and in Brazil), is the ability of the batteries to function, even the mighty Tesla is stuffed without an external power source to get the heating/cooling to work.

 

[jaapv]

As far as I am aware Sweden has had plug-in points for engine heating all over the place for decades. Many cars have an electric plug dangling out of the front.

 

[Grafikstudion]

As far as I am aware Sweden has had plug-in points for engine heating all over the place for decades. Many cars have an electric plug dangling out of the front.

Yes we have plug-in points but that´s not helping since there is no battery heater in the car.

 

[greendwarf]

As far as I am aware Sweden has had plug-in points for engine heating all over the place for decades. Many cars have an electric plug dangling out of the front.

Maybe - but for what? Presumably sump heaters for ICE cars but there would need to be a very specific mod to interface with an EV's electrics.

This is how Volvo have dealt with the problem http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1074186_volvo-c30-electric-keeping-car-and-occupants-warm-in-the-cold but note the adverse comments at the end. Interestingly, the article refers to -20F which is closer to -30C than the -20C referred to in the OP.

 

[jaapv]

Most cars in Sweden use external heaters. I had them as an extra in the Volvos I drove in the past as an extra, very nice.

 

[Grafikstudion]

A reader of my blog just commented my experiences with the Outlander problems in cold climate. Here are HIS experiences:

At -15 degrees C (5 deg F) the EV drive won´t work, at - 30 degrees C (-22 deg F) the engine lamp lits up and a message with charging failure lits up. Mitsubishi support says to go to the mitubishi garage or stop the car. Coludn´t do it, had 251 miles (410 km) to nearest garage.
The engine lamp went out efter a restart of the engine and after 10 minutes.
At - 41 deg C (-41 deg F) the car won´t drive even though the engine starts
Have not been able to drive the car for a week. Out af 1300 miles (2100 km) the mpg i approx. 30 and EV drive has been 142 miles (230 km)
a TAD dissapointed. I believe the car has not been tested properly and it is not completed.

Not very reassuring i believe

 

[maby]

A reader of my blog just commented my experiences with the Outlander problems in cold climate:

At -15 degrees C (5 deg F) the EV drive won´t work, at - 30 degrees C (-22 deg F) the engine lamp lits up and a message with charging failure lits up. Mitsubishi support says to go to the mitubishi garage or stop the car. Coludn´t do it, had 251 miles (410 km) to nearest garage.
The engine lamp went out efter a restart of the engine and after 10 minutes.
At - 41 deg C (-41 deg F) the car won´t drive even though the engine starts
Have not been able to drive the car for a week. Out af 1300 miles (2100 km) the mpg i approx. 30 and EV drive has been 142 miles (230 km)
a TAD dissapointed. I believe the car has not been tested properly and it is not completed.

Not very reassuring i believe

I do think that they should not be selling the car in places that regularly have seriously cold weather. Modern batteries simply do not like extremes of temperature and when you are getting down to minus twenty and below, it is just too difficult to compensate.

 

[jaapv]

I don't think a non- EV car would be happy at -41. I would not trust any car to start. In fact, one would need a blowtorch to preheat a Diesel engine to start.

 

[maby]

by the way - a question for our battery experts - how low can the temperature go before the battery is damaged? I don't mean how low can it go and the car still work - how low can the storage temperature of a lithium cell go? There must come a point when the contents begin to freeze and the structure of the battery is compromised.

 

[maby]

I don't think a non- EV car would be happy at -41. I would not trust any car to start. In fact, one would need a blowtorch to preheat a Diesel engine to start.

Quite true - my daughter-in-law comes from the far north of Canada and there are times in the winter when they have to keep engines running continuously while out of the garage. More than ten minutes stopped and it will be impossible to restart.