EV wars...

[user 816]

Some people don't get it do they?

In a forum discussing parking spaces (parent & child/disabled) I commented

"After years of being just a normal 'parker', I am now experiencing ~some~ of the frustrations disabled people must feel.

I have hybrid vehicle that can be electrically charged, there are special bays with chargers at most services and probably to reduce cost of heavy cables they are often right outside the services door, even nearer than the disabled spots.

So you can guess they attract all the usual lazy souls that are perfectly able but need to save 10 yards on the way to getting the next portion of KFC, or the sales reps who think their precious cars will be dinged unless in an 30 foot exclusion zone and so on.

Despite being heavily hatched, signed and warnings of £100 penalty for improper use they still do it, there are only 2 special spaces typically and I need it, the cable isn't long enough to reach a normal bay!!"

I got this response...

"I share this frustration, but as a hybrid driver you do have the option of using fossil fuel. Unfortunately, whenever I reach a services in my pure EV, there's normally an Outlander PHEV in the spaces, topping up its tiny battery for half an hour or more, leaving those of us who actually do *need* the electrons, and hence the space, to wait."

??? why the hell would you buy a plug in hybrid to only drive around on petrol???
I have seen similar posts on the web from 'pure' EV drivers who think that they are a higher form of life because they alone are saving the planet and PHEV drivers are traitors, I suspect the sour grapes is before the PHEV they had a nice little network all to themselves but its been such a massive success the network is used a lot more now.

That said, no EV driver has ever been miserable to my face, or pushy or impatient and perfectly friendly.

 

[anko]

On the other hand, I suspect no pure EV driver will risk driving to the mall and not being able to get home. That will make sure they have sufficient SOC or stay home. So, they'll make it home anyway, charge or no charge. To them it does not take a difference whether they can charge. To us, it does.

Or is that too simply put? :mrgreen:

 

[user 816]

On the other hand, I suspect no pure EV driver will risk driving to the mall and not being able to get home. That will make sure they have sufficient SOC or stay home. So, they'll make it home anyway, charge or no charge. To them it does not take a difference whether they can charge. To us, it does.

Or is that too simply put? :mrgreen:

Quite possibly correct. With typically 2 stations at most our services, its not unusual to find a broken one, it would be quite risky to rely on totally.

I also wonder if the Leaf driver gives up the charger to a Tesla driver as it has a far superior battery as that person thinks your entitlement to a charger depends on how big your battery is? :lol:

 

[Fragge]

Well, I live in both worlds. I have a Outlander and a Leaf. The problem is that a Leaf driver might not make it home unless they get a charge. The Outlander driver can easily get home without a charge, it will only be a bit more expensive.
If I was out of charge in the Leaf and found Outlanders blocking the public chargers i would be rather pissed as well. If the chargers was blocked by other Leafs I would just wait in line for a charge.
If the Leaf had charge enough to get home I wouldn't care who's blocking the chargers.

 

[anko]

So, you are willing to wait for your turn. That's cool. But if that is the case, why are you willing to wait for another Leaf driver, but not for a PHEV driver? And if there is another Leaf driver in the bay, are you wondering whether he actually needs to be there, at that moment?

It is all so complicated ....

 

[Fragge]

So, you are willing to wait for your turn. That's cool. But if that is the case, why are you willing to wait for another Leaf driver, but not for a PHEV driver? And if there is another Leaf driver in the bay, are you wondering whether he actually needs to be there, at that moment?

It is all so complicated ....

Well, another "pure" EV car might need to be there and that's OK. A Outlander definitely dosen't need to bee there, they just want to save some money. If I knew the the other "pure" EV car didn't really need the charge I would also be upset, but that is harder to know. With a hybrid I know they don't need it.

 

[anko]

I thought it was not just about money, but also about the environment. At least, for some of us

So, if the EV can make it home on electricity and the PHEV can only make it home on fuel, who should be allowed to charge?

 

[Fragge]

I thought it was not just about money, but also about the environment. At least, for some of us

So, if the EV can make it home on electricity and the PHEV can only make it home on fuel, who should be allowed to charge?

The PHEV of course, as i stated earlier this situation only arises if I need a charge to make it. If I can make it on the charge I have I don't care who parks in the EV spot.

 

[lg1726]

Yep - I spotted that post and several others like it 'over there'!

It always amuses me when some of the purist BEV owners then pipe up that their EV is part of a multi car household and the other(s) is/are diesel/petrol vehicles!! At this point I just want to shake them and shout at them! We got rid of a family-sized car and a little one, both petrol to move to the PHEV and that's why we got a PHEV, so that we could manage with only one car, but when it comes to their BEV they are somehow superior to me and have first dibs on the charge points, and for some of them, free electric as well! Grrrrr

 

[greendwarf]

Well, I live in both worlds. I have a Outlander and a Leaf. The problem is that a Leaf driver might not make it home unless they get a charge. The Outlander driver can easily get home without a charge, it will only be a bit more expensive.
If I was out of charge in the Leaf and found Outlanders blocking the public chargers i would be rather pissed as well. If the chargers was blocked by other Leafs I would just wait in line for a charge.
If the Leaf had charge enough to get home I wouldn't care who's blocking the chargers.

So you would wait for another Leaf but not the max of 20 minutes for a PHEV - who presumably didn't know you were going to turn up after they have started charging. Are you really saying PHEV owners should never use public chargers in case an impatient Leaf driver turns up suffering from acute road rage (sorry range anxiety) :?:

You would, of course, be entitled to be cross once the 20 minutes was up and still no sign of the PHEV driver but the same applies if I can't use the charger after the Leaf has finished - see previous thread about charging etiquette and leaving you mobile no. in the windscreen

 

[user 816]

Well, I live in both worlds. I have a Outlander and a Leaf. The problem is that a Leaf driver might not make it home unless they get a charge. The Outlander driver can easily get home without a charge, it will only be a bit more expensive.
If I was out of charge in the Leaf and found Outlanders blocking the public chargers i would be rather pissed as well. If the chargers was blocked by other Leafs I would just wait in line for a charge.
If the Leaf had charge enough to get home I wouldn't care who's blocking the chargers.

But here is the issue, what is the point of having a PHEV if you avoid charging it so LEAF driver don't have to wait? madness!

I really do not see how the fact that it #could# drive home on petrol makes it any less entitled to charge, its this idea that PHEV owners are only in it for the money and that makes them bad, EV driver are only in it to save the planet which makes them more righteous... but EV drivers are saving more money than PHEV drivers so could be doing it for purely financial reasons even more so with no regard to the environment doesn't that make them worse?

We should just wait our turn.

 

[Kim]

Naaw
If it was for the money, I'd buy a brand new well equiped Mercedes GLC .
Because here in Switzerland, we do not get any bonuses or tax reductions at all for our PHEVs.
And the Outi PHEV here costs a few thousands more than a GLC with propper extras...!

It's all about the thrill of driving silent and CO2 free in All Wheel Drive for me...!

 

[Neverfuel]

Well, I live in both worlds. I have a Outlander and a Leaf. The problem is that a Leaf driver might not make it home unless they get a charge. The Outlander driver can easily get home without a charge, it will only be a bit more expensive.
If I was out of charge in the Leaf and found Outlanders blocking the public chargers i would be rather pissed as well. If the chargers was blocked by other Leafs I would just wait in line for a charge.
If the Leaf had charge enough to get home I wouldn't care who's blocking the chargers.

So you would wait for another Leaf but not the max of 20 minutes for a PHEV - who presumably didn't know you were going to turn up after they have started charging. Are you really saying PHEV owners should never use public chargers in case an impatient Leaf driver turns up suffering from acute road rage (sorry range anxiety) :?:

You would, of course, be entitled to be cross once the 20 minutes was up and still no sign of the PHEV driver but the same applies if I can't use the charger after the Leaf has finished - see previous thread about charging etiquette and leaving you mobile no. in the windscreen

Or use the Chargebump app and leave the sign in your window

 

[Ozukus]

Personally, if I pull into a location that has a charge bay and it's free, and I need a charge, I'm going to use it.

I purchased the PHEV on the basis that I needed the extended range of the ICE as some of my journeys are beyond the range of a LEAF and I couldn't afford a Tesla.

When making this purchase I took into consideration that the only place I have control over charging is my own residence, and to be reliant on a charge system that could be used by someone else or be faulty just wasn't going to cut it. Hence the reason why the LEAF wasn't an option.

If you have any form of electric vehicle then as far as I'm concerned you are entitled to use the facility, as long as you use it with consideration of your charge end time.

The only time I get annoyed with other drivers, besides those with a standard ICE car, are those that think that they are Electric Vehicle Parking Bays, not Electric Vehicle Charging Bays.

 

[user 816]

The only time I get annoyed with other drivers, besides those with a standard ICE car, are those that think that they are Electric Vehicle Parking Bays, not Electric Vehicle Charging Bays.

And we all say "Amen" to that.

 

[Driver5]

Fact is, its first come first served regardless as its a public service.

A Phev driver may only be doing 20 miles and wants to do the route on pure EV so is no different to a pure EV car. Yes they have the petrol option, but why should they have to use it, they may want to be as green as a pure EV on local driving.

It is not the PHEV drivers fault that a leaf owner needs to charge or is trying to complete a route beyond their range. The EV driver took that risk the second they set off. Just like people ICE'ing bays, it has to be accepted that if fines are not going to be enforced you should not rely on the bay been available.

If you buy a pure EV you take that risk / gamble that sometimes you will have to wait for other PHEV's or EV's will be before you whether its 30 mins or a few hours.

Its out of your control, an EV owner took that risk when buying the car.

 

[Wobblydeb]

Well, I live in both worlds. I have a Outlander and a Leaf. The problem is that a Leaf driver might not make it home unless they get a charge. The Outlander driver can easily get home without a charge, it will only be a bit more expensive.
If I was out of charge in the Leaf and found Outlanders blocking the public chargers i would be rather pissed as well. If the chargers was blocked by other Leafs I would just wait in line for a charge.
If the Leaf had charge enough to get home I wouldn't care who's blocking the chargers.

This really bugs me. We are getting rid of 2 cars (1 small petrol and 1 large diesel) and ordering a PHEV right now. For the PHEV to work as a single car replacement, we have to use public chargers. We cannot charge at home.

If all my local Leaf drivers decided that the rules set by my local council shouldn't apply to hybrids, I would have just stuck with my two gas guzzlers. But that's the point - I am buying the PHEV on the basis that I am allowed to use those charge points. There aren't pure EV charge points and hybrid charge points.

There is no point in me buying a PHEV and then not charging it. I should just stick with the existing set up. But I live in a city, I have children, I want a better future for my kids' lungs!