Fast charge complete shutdown

[Oscarman]

I contacted both Mitsubishi and Ecotricity and like others got these replies:
Ecotricity:
"The issues that you’ve heard of relates to when a Mitsubishi Outlander goes into a “failsafe” mode, this is typically caused by the driver of the vehicle where they disrupt the charging session by doing something g as simple as turning on the vehicle on whilst in a charging session and the vehicle acts to protect itself by going into a “failsafe” mode to prevent damage to itself.

This is something that Mitsubishi are working on and we advise contacting them about the issue as its caused by the vehicle and not our pumps and they may have fixed this issue or may be able to provide more advise on the matter."

Mitsubishi:
"It is the case that we, Mitsubishi Motors UK, are working closely with Ecotricity to ensure that our mutual customers do not experience any issues during fast charging. We are aware that where charging units are damaged and/or disconnection is made too soon i.e. before the communication display on the unit advises it is appropriate to disconnect, the vehicle may go into ‘fail safe’ mode. As such, it is imperative that the usage instructions, at the relevant charge point station, are followed accordingly."

Clearly each company suspects operator error, although members who have had the problem believe they followed the instructions.

For myself I shall think very carefully whether the 80% charge is worth the risk and check on the forum whether other owners report having problems.

 

[TomPHEV]

I got my PHEV back today and the service manager said that they had found some error codes and that they had done a full reset and that had "cured" the problem. They were "not sure" what had caused the problem and when I asked if they had tried rapid charging the car (there was 17 more miles on the car when I picked it up than when it was delivered to the dealer on the breakdown truck) the service manager reluctantly said that they had, but I wonder...doesn't really fill me with confidence in any case

Anyway I have sucessfully performed a rapid charge this evening with no problems - partly because the dealer gave the car back to me with less than 1/4 battery charge - so I ***HOPE*** the issue is resolved.

The dealer said if it happens again that they will have to look in to the issue in more detail. They seem unaware and unwilling to acknowledge that other PHEV oners have experienced the same problem when rapid charging.

Having said all that, I still adore the car and I love the way it drives!

 

[gwatpe]

I am not sure how to to take the decision for MMC to not supply a fast charge port on the AUS shipped PHEV. Perhaps MMC were removing the problems occurring with possible impatient drivers here in AUS.

We do have a fast charge point close to where I live so there must have been some other reason why we don't have the connector suplied in our PHEVs.

I believe that the omission of the fast charge socket from our vehicles is a direct admission of a fault with it. Not to mention this could lead to bad press with sales implications. Better to just not supply it, than deal with potential problems when drivers may use it.

"Fail Safe" mode. Don't need to completely immobilize the car for this. Should be just a timeout, to allow connections to be removed, before a local reset of the systems to restore operation, like holding the power button for a set time. The normal checks done by the PHEV computer would still protect the car if a fault still existed. The fact that all that seems to have been done to fix the problem is to connect a service tool and clear some codes points to a bug in the PHEV firmware, that still needs to be fixed.

 

[maby]

...

"Fail Safe" mode. Don't need to completely immobilize the car for this. Should be just a timeout, to allow connections to be removed, before a local reset of the systems to restore operation, like holding the power button for a set time. The normal checks done by the PHEV computer would still protect the car if a fault still existed. The fact that all that seems to have been done to fix the problem is to connect a service tool and clear some codes points to a bug in the PHEV firmware, that still needs to be fixed.

My guess is that something that can occur occasionally on the Rapid Charge connection is spuriously triggering an error condition that the engineers considered potentially serious. Don't forget that large lithium batteries can fail catastrophically and some early PHEVs did suffer some serious battery failures. I think they are probably just playing safe - something unexpected was detected in the rapid charge circuit, so it shuts down completely until an engineer is able to inspect it.

 

[gwatpe]

The fast charge circuit handles less energy than a hard REGEN. I have seen 60kW of REGEN. Better not have a passenger bump the joystick into neutral under heavy REGEN conditions. This could trigger the car into thinking there was a problem in a similar way. Would be better to just have a smoke sensor to test for a battery fire and shut the system down for a real problem. Any other problem that causes a complete shutdown without a problem being found is just an excuse to mask poor programming. MMC should have at least allowed the driver to try and resolve the problem first, before going into dead as a door post, "call for service". I had the immobilizer shut the car down, after a "key not found" message appeared while driving, but at least holding the power button after a period of time got me operational again. Don't have that car anymore, so not a problem for me now.

 

[Neverfuel]

Hi Gwatpe.

I guess the difference is that FAST charging works at about 315v dc so goes direct to the battery, rather than using the OBC. Which I guess bypasses a lot of the safety circuits associated with grid charging.

 

[gwatpe]

Since when does REGEN use the OBC. REGEN goes straight to the battery. BTW what power level does the fast charger operate at. The 20min to get to 80%SOC indicates under 20kW, or 1/3 of the rate of a hard REGEN.

 

[Neverfuel]

Since when does REGEN use the OBC. REGEN goes straight to the battery. BTW what power level does the fast charger operate at. The 20min to get to 80%SOC indicates under 20kW, or 1/3 of the rate of a hard REGEN.

I was referring to the problem with fast charging, as I not seen any problems caused by regen.

Fast chargers operate at 315v and initially put out 50A - so 15.75kw it gradually lowers the ampage at about 75% until it completes at 80%. So you usually get just over 6kw of charge in about 22 - 24 mins from a starting SOC of 30% or so.

 

[gwatpe]

Any takers for testing the passenger knee against the joystick and dropping the PHEV into neutral on a steep downhill REGEN section. :?: If nothing happens, then this would confirm a bug in the fast charge systems.