Forum Thoughts

[Claymore]

1. Repeat Standard Questions - The same questions will get asked repeatedly by the stream of 'newbies' (and I certainly took my turn) but on subjects such as use of the Brake Paddles - why are there not more 'stickies' posted at the head of appropriate sections of the forums so that the usual stalwarts don't have to keep stating the same things over and over again?

If the sticky was locked and only capable of alteration by an administrator others would be free to offer thoughts by PM if something obvious (and actually useful and/or pertinent might be added or changed) or if the passing of time required some or all of it to be 'refreshed'.

2. Thread Drift - The concepts of 'decorum' and/or etiquette are increasingly rare creatures in the world today but is it now too much to ask that if, for example, some poor sod asks about using the paddles on his car that he / she doesn't have to wade through 9 or more pages of irrelevant esoteric arguments about Continuously Variable Transmissions.

The fact that I too took part in that doesn't pass the 'so what?' test.

In any conversation subject matter will drift but when thread drift becomes as bad as it is on here people will be even less likely to bother searching for answers on their own because the threads that are presented to them as a result of the search will mostly contain information about a quite different subject to that which they sought. Apart from that, beyond a certain point it's just plain rude.

Because of 2. above, out of sympathy for the original poster, I pulled out the original question and reposted it with my own simple and no doubt incomplete response. I am please that is locked but I'm amazed at the comment that duplicate threads are unhelpful as it certainly couldn't be described as a duplicate of the thread it was taken from, and surprised that the vociferous embedded drift subject hasn't been commented on and moved to another thread.

Just saying, and as I've been so audacious I'll better wave 'bye bye'.........

JimB

 

[maby]

1. Repeat Standard Questions - The same questions will get asked repeatedly by the stream of 'newbies' (and I certainly took my turn) but on subjects such as use of the Brake Paddles - why are there not more 'stickies' posted at the head of appropriate sections of the forums so that the usual stalwarts don't have to keep stating the same things over and over again?

If the sticky was locked and only capable of alteration by an administrator others would be free to offer thoughts by PM if something obvious (and actually useful and/or pertinent might be added or changed) or if the passing of time required some or all of it to be 'refreshed'.

2. Thread Drift - The concepts of 'decorum' and/or etiquette are increasingly rare creatures in the world today but is it now too much to ask that if, for example, some poor sod asks about using the paddles on his car that he / she doesn't have to wade through 9 or more pages of irrelevant esoteric arguments about Continuously Variable Transmissions.

The fact that I too took part in that doesn't pass the 'so what?' test.

In any conversation subject matter will drift but when thread drift becomes as bad as it is on here people will be even less likely to bother searching for answers on their own because the threads that are presented to them as a result of the search will mostly contain information about a quite different subject to that which they sought. Apart from that, beyond a certain point it's just plain rude.

Because of 2. above, out of sympathy for the original poster, I pulled out the original question and reposted it with my own simple and no doubt incomplete response. I am please that is locked but I'm amazed at the comment that duplicate threads are unhelpful as it certainly couldn't be described as a duplicate of the thread it was taken from, and surprised that the vociferous embedded drift subject hasn't been commented on and moved to another thread.

Just saying, and as I've been so audacious I'll better wave 'bye bye'.........

JimB


JimB

You are, of course, right - but these things tend to gain a life of their own and, by the time it becomes apparent that a thread is drifting seriously, the new thread has become so intertwined into the old one that it is very difficult to separate out without killing it! Jaap as moderator has managed it in the past and perhaps should do the same for the CVT discussion?

 

[ian4x4]

I like the idea of a controlled (locked?) 'Frequently asked Questions' section.

Also for those who have strongly held opinions, perhaps a 'Frequently Given Opinions' section would help control the 'Off-Topic' drift that happens, as it would allow contributors to express their good/bad thoughts away from the useful stuff. Although I must admit that some of these opinions are helpful in working out the underlying reasons for going the PHEV route.

It would be a pity if this forum was too heavily governed, as it is very informative.

Thank You

 

[Claymore]

Ian, I agree that the information is very good, as is following the arguments, but I suspect only if you were following that thread from the beginning.

If you came in now looking for a thread on CVT you would no doubt enjoy and learn from the cut and thrust of the 'drift' but likely you wouldn't find it if you had no interest in learning or giving info about brake paddles.

It's a question of keeping some sort of balance and exercising common sense....but there I go again, down Memory Lane.



JimB

 

[Carnut]

JimB,
I agree with all you say.
See my latest on Paddles/CVT debacle, asking for the thread to be locked. It has all got a bit silly, gone too far. Unpleasantness was starting to creep in and it was just going round in circles.
Hope you enjoyed the popcorn! :lol:
a tout a l'heure.
Colin.

 

[lg1726]

Can I just say that for the most part I find this forum helpful and I like that it is Outlander specific and so you don't have all the BEV purists having a go!

However, I do sometimes feel that even the most simple of questions end up in some sort of machismo peeing up the wall competition as to who knows more/most; who's technical know-how trumps who else and how many three letter acronyms can be peppered throughout the post and for me, all that is a real turnoff. Now, I can see for many the thrill of this, I was married to a mechanical engineer for 20 years, so I do understand that mind set. For those of us who just drive the bloody things and don't know, nor really want to know all the mechanical gobbledygook, it can sometimes become a very daunting and at times, off-putting place!

 

[jaapv]

I fear that thread drift is a fact of life on any Internet forum. Often impossible to separate and control. As a moderator I am no censor, and I prefer to participate as well.
Feel free to start a new thread on a new aspect, but believe me, starting off with an identical post creates confusion.

I moderate a large photography forum as well and you wouldn't believe how easy in comparison my job over here is!

 

[greendwarf]

One of the problems for newbies is likely to be the sheer size of the forum now. When I joined in 2014 it was still possible to work your way through every single post to date. This was useful in that the comments helped me make up my mind to get the PHEV. I also learnt a lot in advance of getting the car and so did not feel the need to ask questions.

However, now, it must be very daunting to try and find an answer to a problem because the search facility does not like generic subjects. Of coursed if you are a newbie than you don't know how to be more specifc than, say "paddles". Even I find it very difficult to dig out a previous thread/post using the search function. Inevitably most readers will give up and just ask their question in a new thread.

But as jaapv says this is the nature of the beast - you can't see the wood for the trees on the Internet.

 

[Bladevane]

I have only been a member of this forum for a few weeks so apologies if my question has been raised and answered before.

One of the areas I am surprised doesn't exist is For Sale and Wanted. Could this be instigated on the PHEV FOrum?

 

[Neverfuel]

One of the problems for newbies is likely to be the sheer size of the forum now. When I joined in 2014 it was still possible to work your way through every single post to date. This was useful in that the comments helped me make up my mind to get the PHEV. I also learnt a lot in advance of getting the car and so did not feel the need to ask questions.

However, now, it must be very daunting to try and find an answer to a problem because the search facility does not like generic subjects. Of coursed if you are a newbie than you don't know how to be more specifc than, say "paddles". Even I find it very difficult to dig out a previous thread/post using the search function. Inevitably most readers will give up and just ask their question in a new thread.

But as jaapv says this is the nature of the beast - you can't see the wood for the trees on the Internet.

I think I could consider myself time served - I don't get into the arguments or post things just to get my name known. I give factual and considered responses, or start a useful thread on a new subject. As for a FAQ, we have had that discussion before - new people need personalised answers, not something out of date, relating to possibly a different model etc.

I spend a lot of time every day reading each post, contributing where appropriate and keeping my opinions to myself when I can't add anything constructive. But I do like the banter, it kinda adds to the whole PHEV experience. Take a look at the lack of activity in other PHEV forums, and even for that matter other EV forums, and you will find that there isn't half as much activity or half as much informed discussion as there is on here. Those discussions have inspired people to experiment, discover and share knowledge, to give the ordinary person a bigger insight into one of the newest technologies around, EVEN if the don't yet own one. Mitsubishi UK have a link to this site as a knowledge base - not many sites for other models can claim that. I consider it a privilege to be part of a community where people like Anko, Jaapv, Maby, Greendwarf, Trex, Gwatpe et al are still prepared to give up their time and add valuable knowledge to the site, even if it does cover old ground.

So, more moderation of the site? Not for me, it would quickly lose its appeal. Jaapv's view on light moderation has always worked, from the earliest pioneers to the newest members. In my view if it's too much for people to handle to take a warts and all view - then there are other places to point your browser. Don't make it into a big issue, the fact that people are curious, it's a good thing. Read what you want, Learn what you need, Ask if your stuck.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Bladevane]

I believe as long as there is something to learn the forum will always attract interest. As Neverfuel says, the technology used on this vehicle is amazing so the informed views that populate the forum are gold dust to drivers of all experiences.

The banter is fine, but a word of caution. I am a member of a welding forum and most of the postings seem to be banter or points scoring. Which explains why I have not visited it for a couple of months.

 

[greendwarf]

[ I consider it a privilege to be part of a community where people like Anko, Jaapv, Maby, Greendwarf, Trex, Gwatpe et al are still prepared to give up their time and add valuable knowledge to the site, even if it does cover old ground.

Rather embarrassed to find myself in such illustrious company - I always think of myself a just a guy in a funny hat shouting from the wings!

 

[Neverfuel]

1. Repeat Standard Questions - The same questions will get asked repeatedly by the stream of 'newbies' (and I certainly took my turn) but on subjects such as use of the Brake Paddles - why are there not more 'stickies' posted at the head of appropriate sections of the forums so that the usual stalwarts don't have to keep stating the same things over and over again?

If the sticky was locked and only capable of alteration by an administrator others would be free to offer thoughts by PM if something obvious (and actually useful and/or pertinent might be added or changed) or if the passing of time required some or all of it to be 'refreshed'.

2. Thread Drift - The concepts of 'decorum' and/or etiquette are increasingly rare creatures in the world today but is it now too much to ask that if, for example, some poor sod asks about using the paddles on his car that he / she doesn't have to wade through 9 or more pages of irrelevant esoteric arguments about Continuously Variable Transmissions.

The fact that I too took part in that doesn't pass the 'so what?' test.

In any conversation subject matter will drift but when thread drift becomes as bad as it is on here people will be even less likely to bother searching for answers on their own because the threads that are presented to them as a result of the search will mostly contain information about a quite different subject to that which they sought. Apart from that, beyond a certain point it's just plain rude.

Because of 2. above, out of sympathy for the original poster, I pulled out the original question and reposted it with my own simple and no doubt incomplete response. I am please that is locked but I'm amazed at the comment that duplicate threads are unhelpful as it certainly couldn't be described as a duplicate of the thread it was taken from, and surprised that the vociferous embedded drift subject hasn't been commented on and moved to another thread.

Just saying, and as I've been so audacious I'll better wave 'bye bye'.........

JimB

Just a stupid question Claymore, when did you actually receive your car and who do you refer to as "newbies".

It is not your post count that matters, it's your experience with the car and your (positive) contribution to the discussion people will value.

Here endeth yet another lesson (I really am becoming a cynical b@$¥@?d recently! I'm sorry folks, but there's a pile of posts to go yet before I catch up.

 

[Claymore]

...Just a stupid question Claymore, when did you actually receive your car and who do you refer to as "newbies".

It is not your post count that matters, it's your experience with the car and your (positive) contribution to the discussion people will value.

Here endeth yet another lesson (I really am becoming a cynical b@$¥@?d recently! I'm sorry folks, but there's a pile of posts to go yet before I catch up.

Neverfuel,

I wasn't planning on engaging in conversations on this subject. I made the original post out of sympathy for two sets of individuals;

1. The people who voluntarily take the lion's share of answering questions in the main from newbies (that is usually people who are new to the forum and they are usually or at least often new to the forum because they have just got a PHEV for the first time or they have just ordered one or are thinking of ordering one......and so on....).

Many of the questions are repeated weekly, sometime daily because people seem to be so busy these days that they haven't got time to search the forum for answers :idea: .

You listed the main stalwarts, no doubt there are others who provide help too.

Many if not most of the forums I've been a member of since the late 90s have used pinned threads or stickies wherein new users can read answers to at least some of the most frequently asked questions. I noticed that this forum doesn't seem to have that feature and therefore suggested it to help both the 'stalwarts' and the 'newbies'.

2. The 'Newbies' ( I hope my description of who I refer to as those, above, is sufficient for you to analyze my thinking there).

I think I've already outlined my thinking re stickies but on the subject of thread drift I'm sure you'll be warmed by the news that I too have had occasion to lecture those who have complained about thread drift. I said in my opening message that drift in any conversation is almost inevitable, however that was when the drift had started after discussion of the original question had been exhausted. I was motivated to say what I did because in my opinion (and I believe it has recently been stated by one of the stalwarts that we are entitled to have an opinion) it had become somewhat ridiculous in the brake paddle thread. I have already admitted joining in enthusiastically with the banter although I hadn't realized that the definition of banter meant that participants must either have an degree in engineering or be perceived to be part of a higher level of 'pecking order'.

The date when I got my PHEV is well documented in this forum. Sad to say all of the posts I made about it were only as a result of my enthusiasm, not because I was trying to raise my post count. Quite frankly who gives a flying fig for anyone's post count?

I have made quite a few posts in response to people's questions and I only take the time to do that because I hope that my response might be helpful.

I also make a lot of frivolous posts in an attempt at humour. Is that actually forbidden in this forum?

Regarding experience of the car (or of anything at all actually)....in work and out people often have the habit of claiming that they have (for example) 10 years experience of ...whatever. As a senior manager in our organisation I could see that whilst some did indeed have 10 years experience others had 1 years experience repeated 10 times..........

..............and so it will be here too.

and another thing....it was often asked in my career how long it took anyone to learn a particular job and after a lot of deliberation the surprise was that it rarely took people more than 3 months to learn enough to become quite proficient (I'm talking routine technical Insurance roles here ) probably around 80% of what an experienced person total knowledge was...then maybe a further year or so to accumulate actual experience of doing the job to learn all the 'wrinkles' ...or whatever one prefers to call them.

Curiously I've had my car nearly 3 months now.

I hope some people will have appreciated what I hoped were positive contributions when I have made them. It matters not one jot what any casual observer thinks.

JimB

EDIT: Joke removed as too susceptible to misinterpretation.