PHEV vs cold weather ans snow

[Dblouin84]

Hi, i'am a french canadien so please excuse my poor english skills.

The PHEV is making his arrival on Canada soon and I'm looking to buy one. But I need to take my decision sooner because i just crashed my car... I have a lot of question about the PHEV reaction in cold weather and snow ans Ils cant wait the first reviews.

Here we have a long winter with below 30 celcius and lot of snow. I wonder how the PHEV will perform in those conditions. Batterie life, fuel consumption, ... anything.

What can you tell me about that?

 

[Kesto]

Do people buy tesla in canada?

 

[anko]

I can't really answer you question, but I think you have to explain again what your normal winter temperatures are. "Below 30 deg C" is almost tropical. You mean 30 deg F or -30 deg C?

Btw: not much wrong with your English if you ask me. ;-)

 

[elm70]

The PHEV has a "permanent" 4WD/AWD system ... so ... on slippery roads and on snow it does go very fine ... if the winter tyres are "decent"

The PHEV does not have lot of ground clearance, other SUV are "taller" ... so on fresh and tall snow it could be an issue.

In the cold, the battery has less capacity, so there is less range in EV mode (that means also possible worst fuel economy) ... in additional there is the "big" problem that if the car is left outside in the cold, it is not possible to warm up the car without having the ICE to start ... and this can ruin the fuel economy again ... plus it is especially annoying to have the car with fully charged battery. and as soon the car is started, the ICE will immediately kick in

This could be mitigated by pre-heating the car, that could be done without the ICE help, but this can be controlled only by: WIFI or by a pre-programmed timer ... so ... not very practical if the car is outside the WIFI range .. other car producers have the "car remote control" based on mobile phone network, and this works without the need to be near the car

PS: 2018 model is reported to have the electric defrost of front window ... this can be quite useful in cold weather

 

[maby]

Minus 30C is pretty close to the absolute minimum operating temperature specified for the car. I don't have the owner's manual readily available - perhaps someone else here could look up the figure. At temperatures that low, Mitsubishi warn of seriously reduced performance and there is a hard cut-off somewhere around there where the car simply refuses to start in order to protect the battery pack.

I would not worry too much about whether or not the petrol engine is going to kick in to warm the car - when you get down to those levels of temperature, the range on battery is going to be so short that you will be running on petrol a lot of the time.

 

[jaapv]

Hi, i'am a french canadien so please excuse my poor english skills.

The PHEV is making his arrival on Canada soon and I'm looking to buy one. But I need to take my decision sooner because i just crashed my car... I have a lot of question about the PHEV reaction in cold weather and snow ans Ils cant wait the first reviews.

Here we have a long winter with below 30 celcius and lot of snow. I wonder how the PHEV will perform in those conditions. Batterie life, fuel consumption, ... anything.

What can you tell me about that?

Road behaviour in wintery conditions is exemplary. However, it will turn more and more into a petrol car as temperature drops, and must be kept over -30º C to be able to start. I would say excellent for winter use, but not suitable for Arctic conditions.

 

[elm70]

Minus 30C is pretty close to the absolute minimum operating temperature specified for the car. I don't have the owner's manual readily available - perhaps someone else here could look up the figure. At temperatures that low, Mitsubishi warn of seriously reduced performance and there is a hard cut-off somewhere around there where the car simply refuses to start in order to protect the battery pack.

I would not worry too much about whether or not the petrol engine is going to kick in to warm the car - when you get down to those levels of temperature, the range on battery is going to be so short that you will be running on petrol a lot of the time.

Last winter I never got less then -12C ... and never had an issue with the car .: I was still able to do my daily commute in full EV mode

-25C is the record at my current living place, but thanks to global warming, this is an unbeaten record since over 6 years .
At the time I had a Diesel .. which never fail to started .. only issue with temperature I had ... was my old Fiat Coupe LE that at just -15deg was not capable any more to properly lock the doors :mrgreen:

Checking the specs of the battery (LEV50 .. the brother of our LEV40) : http://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol5/pdf/05_1_021.pdf

The battery is reported to be tested without problems and with just "10%" capacity lost at the -25C temperature.

So .. I believe -30C and even -35C should be still fine with the PHEV ... below .. I guess any car could have problems.

Still having the car plug into electricity ... using 30min pre heating .. I believe will make our PHEV fully functional also on extreme temperatures

 

[maby]

Minus 30C is pretty close to the absolute minimum operating temperature specified for the car. I don't have the owner's manual readily available - perhaps someone else here could look up the figure. At temperatures that low, Mitsubishi warn of seriously reduced performance and there is a hard cut-off somewhere around there where the car simply refuses to start in order to protect the battery pack.

I would not worry too much about whether or not the petrol engine is going to kick in to warm the car - when you get down to those levels of temperature, the range on battery is going to be so short that you will be running on petrol a lot of the time.

Last winter I never got less then -12C ... and never had an issue with the car .: I was still able to do my daily commute in full EV mode

-25C is the record at my current living place, but thanks to global warming, this is an unbeaten record since over 6 years .
At the time I had a Diesel .. which never fail to started .. only issue with temperature I had ... was my old Fiat Coupe LE that at just -15deg was not capable any more to properly lock the doors :mrgreen:

Checking the specs of the battery (LEV50 .. the brother of our LEV40) : http://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/technic/vol5/pdf/05_1_021.pdf

The battery is reported to be tested without problems and with just "10%" capacity lost at the -25C temperature.

So .. I believe -30C and even -35C should be still fine with the PHEV ... below .. I guess any car could have problems.

Still having the car plug into electricity ... using 30min pre heating .. I believe will make our PHEV fully functional also on extreme temperatures

I don't think it is determined by the battery's ability to function. My understanding from documents I read when we bought the car is that the vehicle management systems simply shut everything down below a temperature that Mitsubishi have selected in order to protect the battery and other components. I don't have access to those documents right now, but my recollection was that the shutdown temperature is something like minus 30. I don't know where Jaapv got his information above.

 

[jaapv]

Not quite sure about the exact shutdown temperature either. The coldest my car started up in was -26ºC in the Alps, but I believe it is mentioned somewhere in the Manual.

 

[pasquinade]

PS: 2018 model is reported to have the electric defrost of front window ... this can be quite useful in cold weather

Hi elm70,

My 2016 version of the car has this... It's a fine wire mesh embedded in the windshield which can be activated when temperatures drop below 4 degC (if I recall correctly). Not very useful where I live in Portugal though....

On the other hand I've seen some PHEV with sunroof versions.... not available here.... I think there's an idiot somewhere choosing these things....

Ricardo

 

[maby]

OK - found a copy of the manual on-line and minus 30c is the cut-off below which the vehicle management system will inhibit both starting and charging of the vehicle to protect the battery. Sorry, sir, this is not a vehicle for arctic conditions!

 

[jaapv]

PS: 2018 model is reported to have the electric defrost of front window ... this can be quite useful in cold weather

Hi elm70,

My 2016 version of the car has this... It's a fine wire mesh embedded in the windshield which can be activated when temperatures drop below 4 degC (if I recall correctly). Not very useful where I live in Portugal though....

On the other hand I've seen some PHEV with sunroof versions.... not available here.... I think there's an idiot somewhere choosing these things....

Ricardo

I had one of those in my previous car. The prismatic effects in low sun were rather interesting. I'm quite happy to be without it now. To me the disadvantages outweigh the few times that it was useful. The car has a rather effective demist setting an preheat anyway. The sunroof is quite noisy. I only use it to prevent my wife from noticing that I have lit up my pipe when driving. :lol: Not that the ploy works all the time... .

 

[Harald]

Your wife does not read the forum, I assume?

 

[jaapv]

:lol:

 

[jonhache]

I would hope that they re-program this for Canadian models. We get at least a weeks worth of nights where it is below -30 every year here in Ottawa.

OK - found a copy of the manual on-line and minus 30c is the cut-off below which the vehicle management system will inhibit both starting and charging of the vehicle to protect the battery. Sorry, sir, this is not a vehicle for arctic conditions!

 

[maby]

The fuel economy in cold weather (as in close to zero, not 30 below) is far less than the headline figures - depending on your location, you should research this carefully before buying - some here have been very disappointed - and we are talking European winters, not Canadian!

 

[jaapv]

I would hope that they re-program this for Canadian models. We get at least a weeks worth of nights where it is below -30 every year here in Ottawa.

OK - found a copy of the manual on-line and minus 30c is the cut-off below which the vehicle management system will inhibit both starting and charging of the vehicle to protect the battery. Sorry, sir, this is not a vehicle for arctic conditions!

Maybe preheat can help out.

 

[maby]

I would hope that they re-program this for Canadian models. We get at least a weeks worth of nights where it is below -30 every year here in Ottawa.

OK - found a copy of the manual on-line and minus 30c is the cut-off below which the vehicle management system will inhibit both starting and charging of the vehicle to protect the battery. Sorry, sir, this is not a vehicle for arctic conditions!

Maybe preheat can help out.

You would have to make sure that you always parked somewhere near a power outlet - otherwise you could find yourself unable to move again till spring!

 

[greendwarf]

We used to have someone from Greenland posting but perhaps they are too near the Gulf Stream to match this sort of temp.