Using a PHEV without chargers

[Tweeds]

Nice parking Jaapv!

probably as close as most SUVs get to going off road!

 

[jaapv]

Most SUVs are more meant to be an all-road vehicle than an off-road one. Those are the Defenders, Landcruisers and Pajeros of this world.

 

[greendwarf]

My neighbour does this to charge his ordinary car battery every few months (hardly uses car) - and he lives on the opposite side of the road, so it's actually trailed across the carriageway

Where do you live, gd? I fancy suing someone when I trip over a cable trailing across a public footpath. :twisted:

Given the state of the pavements in Sarf Lundun the cable is the least of your worries - assuming you haven't been mugged first

 

[spellinn]

Given I was in a similar situation (no off-road charging) I asked the council what their view is. The reply was (quote):

"Trailing cables, however well covered, are not something that a council can agree to on a public road or pavement"

I doubt anyone on my street would actually mind, however you do risk leave yourself open to someone complaining and a council officer instructing you to remove the cable.

Regards


Neil

 

[greendwarf]

"Trailing cables, however well covered, are not something that a council can agree to on a public road or pavement"

Unless, of course, it is one of their cables doing traffic surveying

 

[ddavenpo]

I have just got an Outlander PHEV for exactly the same reason (company car tax). Generally I like it, its good to drive and its very cheap on company car tax as you know, but unless you also get a petrol card, I would not get one. Basically if you could charge it up every night, you would get near free driving for the first 15-18 whilst you have battery (don't believe the brochure - that's the realistic range). After that it drinks petrol. On average, I get anywhere between 21 and 25 MPG on most of my driving - you would get twice that from a modern diesel. If you can never charge it up, you will only ever get that sort of mileage. I get a company petrol card (which is also cheap on tax of course), so it's not an issue for me, except the fact that you have to fill up twice as much.

 

[jaapv]

Your figures are nowhere near mine, but that is the weight of the right foot, I suppose...
Over the last year I have been getting a consistent 30-35 MpG in long-range use and 25 miles electrical on my daily commute. In winter a bit less than in summer.
The worst I can get is running on the Autobahn @ 90 MpH with a skibox fully laden and that is 27 MpG

Driving fuel-conscious will easily better these figures.

 

[user 816]

I have just got an Outlander PHEV for exactly the same reason (company car tax). Generally I like it, its good to drive and its very cheap on company car tax as you know, but unless you also get a petrol card, I would not get one. Basically if you could charge it up every night, you would get near free driving for the first 15-18 whilst you have battery (don't believe the brochure - that's the realistic range). After that it drinks petrol. On average, I get anywhere between 21 and 25 MPG on most of my driving - you would get twice that from a modern diesel. If you can never charge it up, you will only ever get that sort of mileage. I get a company petrol card (which is also cheap on tax of course), so it's not an issue for me, except the fact that you have to fill up twice as much.

Surprises me! where do you live, the Nürburgring? on long motorway runs in the 'high 80's+' I only got it down to 27mpg. Driving in a steady relaxing way over the same journey I can get over 40mpg regularly. Same numbers as my diesel CR-V gave in fact.

If it wasn't for the small tank I wouldn't notice much difference, except at least petrol is quicker and nicer to fill, touch a greasy diesel nozzle and you smell all day.

 

[Grigou]

I've had a diesel CR-V too (CR-V 3 i-CTDI), and I don't agree with you BobEngineer.
But don't agree with ddavenpo anyway ...

The truth is in the middle, as usual

 

[user 422]

I have just got an Outlander PHEV for exactly the same reason (company car tax). Generally I like it, its good to drive and its very cheap on company car tax as you know, but unless you also get a petrol card, I would not get one. Basically if you could charge it up every night, you would get near free driving for the first 15-18 whilst you have battery (don't believe the brochure - that's the realistic range). After that it drinks petrol. On average, I get anywhere between 21 and 25 MPG on most of my driving - you would get twice that from a modern diesel. If you can never charge it up, you will only ever get that sort of mileage. I get a company petrol card (which is also cheap on tax of course), so it's not an issue for me, except the fact that you have to fill up twice as much.

This is definitely not the case - I do a 240mile trip every week and its 95% motorway. I usually fill up before each long trip and you will see from my Signature that my average is well over 40mpg... during the week I would do trips that are 65% EV but not that high relative to the motorway trips that it would skew the mpg figure upwards...
If I hit the reset on a motorway section my instantaneous mpg is usually around 38...

You must either have a very heavy right foot or there is something amiss with the car...

 

[maby]

I have just got an Outlander PHEV for exactly the same reason (company car tax). Generally I like it, its good to drive and its very cheap on company car tax as you know, but unless you also get a petrol card, I would not get one. Basically if you could charge it up every night, you would get near free driving for the first 15-18 whilst you have battery (don't believe the brochure - that's the realistic range). After that it drinks petrol. On average, I get anywhere between 21 and 25 MPG on most of my driving - you would get twice that from a modern diesel. If you can never charge it up, you will only ever get that sort of mileage. I get a company petrol card (which is also cheap on tax of course), so it's not an issue for me, except the fact that you have to fill up twice as much.

This is definitely not the case - I do a 240mile trip every week and its 95% motorway. I usually fill up before each long trip and you will see from my Signature that my average is well over 40mpg... during the week I would do trips that are 65% EV but not that high relative to the motorway trips that it would skew the mpg figure upwards...
If I hit the reset on a motorway section my instantaneous mpg is usually around 38...

You must either have a very heavy right foot or there is something amiss with the car...

I'll second (or is it third?) that. I do a total of around 250 miles per week with the bias towards long motorway way journeys with no ability to charge - I'm averaging between 45 and 50 mpg over a long period. I do have a pretty light right foot - never knowingly exceed 70mph and generally cruise at 60.

 

[Grigou]

You should all compare with an equivalent Diesel car (Honda CR-V for example), with the same light foot, same speed etc ...
If so, you would all honestly admit that the Diesel uses much less liters to drive 100 km than the Outlander PHEV.
At high speeds on motorways at least ...

I've had a CR-V Diesel and know what I'am talking about (8 litres/100 km vs 10 litres/100 km for the PHEV @130 km/h)

 

[maby]

You should all compare with an equivalent Diesel car (Honda CR-V for example), with the same light foot, same speed etc ...
If so, you would all honestly admit that the Diesel uses much less liters to drive 100 km than the Outlander PHEV.
At high speeds on motorways at least ...

I've had a CR-V Diesel and know what I'am talking about (8 litres/100 km vs 10 litres/100 km for the PHEV @130 km/h)

True - and we have observed that the diesel model is probably cheaper to drive than the PHEV for long journeys under the current tax and fuel prices. The overall total cost of ownership depends on other factors including the tax regime of the country you live in - the PHEV is very tax efficient in Britain, at least. Governments around Europe also seem likely to introduce some pretty heavy penalties on diesels in the near future.

 

[Lee]

It drives a lot nicer than the Diesel....

This is what I have heard, I can't drive it myself prior to purchase, I need adaptions so rely on other peoples experiences and riding shotgun on a test drive, also the smoothness of no gear changes and quietness in the cabin are appealing.

Official MPG for the PHEV with minimum charge is 48.7, and for the diesel auto its also 48.7 (i need auto), which are both better than my other choices ix35 (41.5) and tiguan (47.9), of course official figures are never realistic, but I am using them here as relative comparisons.

Lexus aren't available on motability at all, and taxes aren't relevant, as a disabled driver my vehicle is exempt from road tax.

So my assumptions are that given that the official mpg figures are the same, petrol is cheaper than diesel per litre, and the phev is presumably better economy on urban than the diesel, just a shame they don't publish that figure.

Hi Discorduk,

I've just sorted a PHEV GX3h out for my dad, he is also registered disabled and can use the Motability scheme, however we found for certain vehicles buying outright privately can sometimes work out better value if you can afford to. Last time he bought his own, a Skoda Yeti as depreciation was low at the time, just selling now after 3 years and it's worked out about £2000 cheaper over the term including all running costs, insurance etc than it would have cost via Motability.

I'm saying this because we were looking to 'buy' the PHEV to replace the Yeti but this time the Motability cost is far more favourable than private purchase to my calculations so we have gone for the PHEV on Motability instead.

Not only is the deposit cheap at £1499 but I fear residuals on the PHEV in three years time may take a big hit which would be bad for a private owner. I think this because there will be huge numbers of ex-company cars hitting the private secondhand market all at once, I fear that the numbers of cars will far outnumber the amount of private secondhand buyers willing to risk buying a potentially un-warrantied electric vehicle. Most people I know genuinely believe that the batteries are only good for 5 years and cost upwards of £10,000 to replace, maybe that is true, maybe it is false, I don't know but as long as people 'think it is true' I think the 3 year point secondhand buyers will be wary.

Motability protects you from all of that, you know the cost before you sign up and it doesn't change, the PHEV will technically cost my dad around £9000 over the three years on the scheme in real terms, I suspect the 3 year depreciation from new will be rather more.

Anyway, I'm babbling, what I wanted to ask is, have you gone any further regarding the PHEV on Motability? AND If so has anyone mentioned any potential issues with regards you not having a place to charge at home?

The reason being, once we asked about getting the vehicle on Motability the dealer immediately asked if we had off street parking and a place to charge at home. He said that Motability have become pretty strict on this as a requirement and if not the case they will refuse to supply the PHEV.

I don't know if this is true as I have had no personal need to check up on the claim but reading your post in this thread I thought I'd mention it even if it's just to give you a possible heads-up.

The reason they gave was that certain people had taken delivery of PHEVs on the Motability scheme and as you, had no way of charging it, they then after a few months complained and asked for it be replaced, which Motability had to do, I assume because it was deemed that they hadn't properly assessed the vehicles suitability to the customer.

I know salesmen often have many tall tales, so check up if it is true if you need to obviously, it was however what the Manager then said once we'd placed the order that made it seem more likely to be true. He said to contact the local EV home charge point supplier ASAP and get them to do the home survey because Motability insist on it before they process the order.

This would make sense in that, if they had been deemed as allowing a car to be 'mis sold' on the scheme to an unsuitable customer, how would they make sure it didn't happen again? I doubt they'd have the money or staff to go out and assess each applicant's home themselves but by insisting on you having a charge point fitted at home then they are using the charge unit company to do the home survey for them for free. No charge point no car.

Very canny of them if it is true though and if so as is often the case, only because the few spoiled it for the rest because they didn't think 'their' choice through properly

 

[Marksuk]

I got mine through the scheme and Mitsubishi will not deliver a PHEV until you have a charging point fitted its that simple, we have off street parking but arrange a charge point fitting as soon as you can.
I had to email a lot of certification documents to Holt Mitsubishi in Derby (Excellent) and Motorbility (Not so excellent), I think the installer had to send emails as well. You must do this or you wont get a car. The car was sat at the dealers and would not be delivered until the charge point was certified as fitted by Motorbility and then took another "four working days" to release the car for delivery.
Hopefully this explains the situation as of a couple of months ago.
If you want to PM me then feel free, I live in Derbyshire too

Back to the original topic now

 

[Lee]

I got mine through the scheme and Mitsubishi will not deliver a PHEV until you have a charging point fitted its that simple, we have off street parking but arrange a charge point fitting as soon as you can.
I had to email a lot of certification documents to Holt Mitsubishi in Derby (Excellent) and Motorbility (Not so excellent), I think the installer had to send emails as well. You must do this or you wont get a car. The car was sat at the dealers and would not be delivered until the charge point was certified as fitted by Motorbility and then took another "four working days" to release the car for delivery.
Hopefully this explains the situation as of a couple of months ago.
If you want to PM me then feel free, I live in Derbyshire too

Back to the original topic now

Hi Mark, you have confirmed what I was explaining to Discorduk.

We ourselves are fine for the full criteria of Motability and it will be home charged daily, it was purely because I noticed that Discorduk was considering getting one on the scheme but stated they could only use it on petrol as no home charge potential.

Just thought that if what I had heard was correct, as you have confirmed now, then it was better Discorduk knew asap before getting their heart set on the PHEV.

We're getting the car via Gilders, they have literally just opened a Mitsubishi dealership in Chesterfield in the grounds of their Honda dealership on the big bypass round-a-bout near the new football ground.

Hope all your experiences have been positive Mark, I'll PM you a couple of Q's if that's ok