Why does long EV gives poorer non-EV performance in a car?

[Kristian]

Having read a couple of comparisons between cars, it seems a long pure EV range gives poor performance when the ICE is delivering the energy. eg. the Prius is much better than the Outlander ones the plug in energy is used up. The Prius has however 0-poor pure EV range depending on model. Also other car comparisons come out the same way. I dont see why a PHEV with long EV should necessarily perform poorer in the non EV mode? I am talking of performance in MPG (l/100 km). I guess battery weight s a factor (long EV=large battery) , but it can not be all that important?

Any thoughts?

 

[anko]

You aim at comparing a petrol outlander to a phev with a depleted battery?

 

[maby]

The Prius is a substantially lighter car to start with, but also don't make the mistake of believing the published figures for Prius fuel economy. I've come from a Prius to an Outlander and use the PHEV in exactly the same way as I did the Prius - the fuel economy I get from the PHEV is not far short of that which we got out of the Prius - around 45mpg average from each - measured over a period of months. If you only use the Outlander for short journeys within its EV range, the running costs will be significantly lower than a Prius with the same pattern of usage, but if you use both as general purpose cars, then the running costs come out pretty similar.

 

[jaapv]

It is not really possible to compare a slippery, lighter car with a square heavy one this way.

 

[maby]

It is not really possible to compare a slippery, lighter car with a square heavy one this way.

But if you do, the Outlander does come out quite well - surprisingly so actually!

 

[kentphev]

I had a Peugeot 3008 diesel hybrid before the PHEV. On the flat at 60 mph it would do 70 mpg so was economic on long runs, but if you increased to 70 mph it dropped to around 50 mpg.

However, my long term average was 50.3 mpg.

Didn't matter how frugal you drove, using both A and B fuel computer memories the mpg always ended up at 50.3 after a few hundred miles. It was like some magic number.

The point being, a PHEV on mainly shorter journeys will return much more than a non plug in hybrid that spends most of it life charging its meagre battery from engine power.

Peugeot claimed the hybrid system resulted in around 15% better economy which was then roughly cancelled out by the extra weight of motors and batteries! I suspect my mpg was pretty close to the standard diesel. Nice car but in the end felt a bit pointless.

 

[user 816]

I had a Peugeot 3008 diesel hybrid before the PHEV. On the flat at 60 mph it would do 70 mpg so was economic on long runs, but if you increased to 70 mph it dropped to around 50 mpg.

However, my long term average was 50.3 mpg.

Didn't matter how frugal you drove, using both A and B fuel computer memories the mpg always ended up at 50.3 after a few hundred miles. It was like some magic number.

The point being, a PHEV on mainly shorter journeys will return much more than a non plug in hybrid that spends most of it life charging its meagre battery from engine power.

Peugeot claimed the hybrid system resulted in around 15% better economy which was then roughly cancelled out by the extra weight of motors and batteries! I suspect my mpg was pretty close to the standard diesel. Nice car but in the end felt a bit pointless.

Doesn't the 3008 give a sort of 4wd mode using the motor at the back? also was the CO2 low for company car tax?. Pointless maybe for you but for some I can see the advantage.

 

[Stvtech]

Our MD went from a BMW 5 Series to a 3008 about 18 months ago, and the rest of us just laughed at him.

We're still laughing now... :lol:

 

[Kristian]

So is the conclusion that there is little merit in using a non-plug om hybrid. The hybrid solution in itself ia not a MPG benefit? For ex. the Prius is mainly good for other reasons than electrical part. Most people seems to recommend a Diesel Outlander rather than the PHEV for those who drive mostly much longer than the EV range.

There are Diesel-electric trains, but I dont know what the rational for them are, maybe not to save energy?

I ordered the Outlanader for the EV part. I only rarely drive more than 80 km/50 miles, and can almost always charge in both ends. Most of my drives will be within EV range in the City of Oslo.

 

[kentphev]

I had a Peugeot 3008 diesel hybrid before the PHEV. On the flat at 60 mph it would do 70 mpg so was economic on long runs, but if you increased to 70 mph it dropped to around 50 mpg.

However, my long term average was 50.3 mpg.

Didn't matter how frugal you drove, using both A and B fuel computer memories the mpg always ended up at 50.3 after a few hundred miles. It was like some magic number.

The point being, a PHEV on mainly shorter journeys will return much more than a non plug in hybrid that spends most of it life charging its meagre battery from engine power.

Peugeot claimed the hybrid system resulted in around 15% better economy which was then roughly cancelled out by the extra weight of motors and batteries! I suspect my mpg was pretty close to the standard diesel. Nice car but in the end felt a bit pointless.

Doesn't the 3008 give a sort of 4wd mode using the motor at the back? also was the CO2 low for company car tax?. Pointless maybe for you but for some I can see the advantage.

Yes, sorry didnt mean pointless wrt to lower road tax and BIK. In fact you could argue that was its sole criteria. I think I meant in terms of being more efficient than the standard diesel it really didnt justify the extra cost to get maybe 1 or 2 more mpg. Because the hybrid drive was bolted to the rear it did give you a pseudo-4WD. I bought mine privately because, at the time, there wasnt much else and diesel-hybrid seemed like a great idea. A plug-in version would have probably been awesome, say you get 40-50miles of EV and then still get 60mpg off the diesel. Of course I hear rumblings that diesels may soon come under attack for being dirty again and the servicing costs are higher etc etc.

 

[karl]

So is the conclusion that there is little merit in using a non-plug om hybrid. The hybrid solution in itself ia not a MPG benefit? .

No it's good for city driving, for sure. It can make a big difference in certain conditions, but driving across the continent is not one of those...
See it as a slightly better automatic start/stop system.