greendwarf
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Tue May 11, 2021 3:21 am

I assume you are referring to the guessometer. If so, then I have also noticed this, although mainly where there is obvious coasting, i.e. "free" miles. If you are driving at around 30mph there is likely to be quite a lot of short stretches of coasting on overrun which you wouldn't necessarily notice but gradually these build up to fool the guessometer that you can continue getting "free" mileage and so up the range estimate.

I particularly notice it when I dare to cross the river in Lundun to the wilds of Hendon. As there is a gradual incline involved, I can't quite do the round trip (with a lengthy stop in Hendon) on one charge. So the last couple of miles are with the ICE, despite needing less electricity on the decline. However, after charging the guessometer seems to think I have managed to find some magic way of extending the range on this return journey and thinks I can replicate that distance again!

kpetrov
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Tue May 11, 2021 6:58 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:07 am
kpetrov wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 6:31 am
ThudnBlundr wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:01 am
It says that if you are going to run at higher speeds, it is more efficient to run the PHEV in Series mode if the battery is low.
However it doesn't say that the PHEV is more efficient at higher speeds than at lower speeds, which was my initial question.
The graph doesn't say that quote "if you are going to run at higher speeds, it is more efficient to run the PHEV in Series mode if the battery is low."
Exactly the opposite. It says over 65km/h it will run in parallel mode. Under 65km/h will run in series mode. Not because series is more efficient but cause parallel is unavailable at that point.
Otherwise like Trex have said EV power is most efficient in our vehicles and slower and steadier better it is. The question was when is more efficient to run the ICE though.
I did indeed get my Parallel / Series mixed up. D'oh! But I think most people realised that it was a mistake rather than a fundamental misunderstanding of the PHEV and thus didn't feel the need to lecture me
Honestly I couldn't realize it was a mistake since you are arguing and asking for specifically related to PHEV prove that the ICE is more efficient in parallel mode.
Seems you are acknowledging it but arguing for the sport of it.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

ThudnBlundr
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am
Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Wed May 12, 2021 11:09 am

You really don't get it, do you? :roll: At higher speeds, the PHEV is more economical in Parallel mode than Series mode: Mitsubishi designed it that way. I have never, ever argued that that is not the case. But you're arguing that Parallel mode (at high speed, with all the extra forms of drag that that involves), is more efficient than driving at lower speeds in Series mode. I've asked for proof - you've provided none. As I've said many, many times, you may well be right, but you've no proof, only belief. And yet you continue to "argue" that your belief trumps concrete proof :roll:
2015 GX4hs since 03/18
2015 Renault Zoe R240 owner since 11/17

You may have speed, but I have momentum...Image

Fjpod
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Wed May 12, 2021 3:13 pm

I'll add my two cents here... And I realize all of what I say is anecdotal.

I've also not been convinced that parallel is more economical than series, but I may be coming around. I use a scan guage on long trips which gives me an instantaneous mpg, and rpms... Two things that Mitsubishi doesn't give.

I try to drive steadily, keeping rpms steady... When in parallel, instantaneous mpg drops about 25 percent compared to series... But you are gaining battery power... Assuming you will need it later, I think it works out a little better.

Last week I took a long trip... About 580 miles each way. And I only had the opportunity to charge once in each direction at the beginning. It was all interstate highway, except maybe 10 miles on each end of the trip.

I found the trouble with running your battery down to zero was that in the event of a traffic slowdown, you had no reserve for stop and go. Additionally, the ICE would go on and off every two minutes or so. So I tried the charge button a few times... Charging up to about 75 percent, then running it down, but I found this failed me a few times when traffic slowed down and I didn't have enough battery reserve.

So I just left the charge button on full time, traveling at about 72 mph. I began to notice as the battery got up to 75 percent SOC, my instantaneous mpg improved by at least 25 percent... From about 21 mpg on level ground, to 28 to 30 mpg. Additionally, as the battery indicator got closer to 80 or 85 percent full, the ICE would turn off for about one minute.... But the ICE was running 95 percent of the time.

At least 6 times on my return trip the battery power came in very handy during traffic slow downs. Overall, my mpg averaging 72 mph, using this strategy for the 580 Mile return trip, was 30.9 I'm certain it would have been a lot better if I had kept my speed between 60 and 65 mpg.

Has anyone else tried this strategy on long trips with only limited wall charging?
Previous prius and imiev owner.

kpetrov
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 13, 2021 9:36 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:09 am
You really don't get it, do you? :roll: At higher speeds, the PHEV is more economical in Parallel mode than Series mode: Mitsubishi designed it that way. I have never, ever argued that that is not the case. But you're arguing that Parallel mode (at high speed, with all the extra forms of drag that that involves), is more efficient than driving at lower speeds in Series mode. I've asked for proof - you've provided none. As I've said many, many times, you may well be right, but you've no proof, only belief. And yet you continue to "argue" that your belief trumps concrete proof :roll:
What I have said is:

Running on electricity is more efficient (otherwise you should not own the vehicle)
The efficiency of ICE is much better on constant highway speeds than in stop and go traffic. (Total efficiency mpg)
It is better to top up the battery on highway by pressing CHARGE for the stop and go traffic ahead if any. (So you don't force series in stop and go traffic)
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now I have a question for you, do you actually practice what you preach? Do you drive in stop and go traffic with depleted battery so you will be constantly in series? Try it for once and you will have your prove.
My belief is valid even for all conventional vehicles with available parallel on all speed ranges. Series makes urban driving inefficiency even worst with additional energy conversion losses. The prove is in all city/highway consumption numbers.

Fjpod,
I don't let the battery to go flat on the hwy. Always keeping 1/4 reserve.
On long trips I'm ruining it down to 1/4 than charging it to 3/4. Rinse and repeat until the final stretch when aiming to arrive at my destination flat.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

ThudnBlundr
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:18 am
Location: Yorkshire end of M1, UK

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 13, 2021 10:39 am

Fjpod wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 3:13 pm
So I just left the charge button on full time, traveling at about 72 mph. I began to notice as the battery got up to 75 percent SOC, my instantaneous mpg improved by at least 25 percent... From about 21 mpg on level ground, to 28 to 30 mpg. Additionally, as the battery indicator got closer to 80 or 85 percent full, the ICE would turn off for about one minute.... But the ICE was running 95 percent of the time.
According to some experiments posted on here recently, the battery charges less efficiently above 60%. I thought that CHRG stops at around 80% capacity. That would explain the increase in mpg as the power demand for charging decreases, and why the ICE stops as the battery reaches around 80%. I do find that on long trips, CHRG doesn't actually charge that quickly unless we're going downhill. I did try running it in SAVE on the motorway and flipping it into CHRG when going downhill, changing back to SAVE as it levelled out. It worked, but it was a PITA to keep flipping back and forth. And occasionally I forgot :oops:

@kpetrov - I'm not PREACHING anything, unlike you :roll: I have said COUNTLESS time that I DON'T KNOW what the answer is. I'm merely asking a question with an inquiring mind. You say you know the answer without any proof, just "it's always true". I'm afraid I can't be bothered dealing with your unscientific approach any longer because your ignorance is doing my head in. You may count your pig-headedness as a win if that sort of thing floats your boat.
2015 GX4hs since 03/18
2015 Renault Zoe R240 owner since 11/17

You may have speed, but I have momentum...Image

oscarmax
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 13, 2021 12:21 pm

I have kept a Excel spreadsheet recording every journey in details since collect our 2020 model 11 months ago, to date I have tried all different variations over the last 5,000 miles and to be honest I cannot see any real difference.
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

mellobob
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:33 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Thu May 13, 2021 4:17 pm

oscarmax wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:21 pm
I have kept a Excel spreadsheet recording every journey in details since collect our 2020 model 11 months ago, to date I have tried all different variations over the last 5,000 miles and to be honest I cannot see any real difference.
I don't have a spreadsheet detailing my experiments ... but, I too have tried different combinations. And, I too can't see any difference :) The biggest problem in doing any type of comparison is that you need to duplicate the environment you are testing in and that is pretty much impossible (unless you can control the weather and traffic).

oscarmax
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:47 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 14, 2021 1:26 am

mellobob wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 4:17 pm
oscarmax wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 12:21 pm
I have kept a Excel spreadsheet recording every journey in details since collect our 2020 model 11 months ago, to date I have tried all different variations over the last 5,000 miles and to be honest I cannot see any real difference.
I don't have a spreadsheet detailing my experiments ... but, I too have tried different combinations. And, I too can't see any difference :) The biggest problem in doing any type of comparison is that you need to duplicate the environment you are testing in and that is pretty much impossible (unless you can control the weather and traffic).
I totally agree there is a big difference between theory and reality.
Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV Design 2020 Towing a Swift Conqueror 480 2016 1500kg

Please be patient I suffered a brain injury several years ago and get confused at times

kpetrov
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:59 am

Re: Battery Charge/Save Buttons

Fri May 14, 2021 6:25 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:39 am
According to some experiments posted on here recently, the battery charges less efficiently above 60%. I thought that CHRG stops at around 80% capacity. That would explain the increase in mpg as the power demand for charging decreases, and why the ICE stops as the battery reaches around 80%. I do find that on long trips, CHRG doesn't actually charge that quickly unless we're going downhill. I did try running it in SAVE on the motorway and flipping it into CHRG when going downhill, changing back to SAVE as it levelled out. It worked, but it was a PITA to keep flipping back and forth. And occasionally I forgot :oops:

@kpetrov - I'm not PREACHING anything, unlike you :roll: I have said COUNTLESS time that I DON'T KNOW what the answer is. I'm merely asking a question with an inquiring mind. You say you know the answer without any proof, just "it's always true". I'm afraid I can't be bothered dealing with your unscientific approach any longer because your ignorance is doing my head in. You may count your pig-headedness as a win if that sort of thing floats your boat.
I was not talking about CHRG vs. SAVE the difference is really small. Personally I'm using CHRG cause it gives me more control over the SOC, less ICE startups etc..
What I was trying to say is if the ICE will be used anyhow it is better to be done on hwy conditions not in city traffic. Most of the ppl are doing it, computers in regular hybrid vehicles are doing it as well.
That's not ignorance, that are the facts. Bet you are doing it as well. Bet you are trying to avoid using the ICE in city driving conditions and you press SAVE or CHRG on highways. Wonder why not the opposite if it's more efficient? You are the one ignoring the science, claiming it is not specifically written-related to our PHEV.
2018 Outlander PHEV (Canadian)

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