Ron1949
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:24 am

Best way for charging

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:57 am

hope this is in the right place

I have a question that is driving me crazy,
Which is cheaper?

(1) Charge my hybrid vehicle at a charging station 35p a kw

(2) Charge my vehicle when on an open road using the car charge button,
petrol prices £1.22 Lt = £5.55 UK gallon

And no cannot have home charger as I cannot park close to my property, home charger installed with long cable would cost me close to £1,000.00

zzcoopej
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:57 pm
Location: Gosford, Australia
Contact: Website

Re: Best way for charging

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:31 pm

Ron1949 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:57 am
I have a question that is driving me crazy,
Which is cheaper?

(1) Charge my hybrid vehicle at a charging station 35p a kw

(2) Charge my vehicle when on an open road using the car charge button,
petrol prices £1.22 Lt = £5.55 UK gallon
In answer to your specific question, you need to convert both to Pounds per mile.
The PHEV uses about 500 Wh/mile (ie 0.5kWh) according to this page https://ecarsrange.com/mitsubishi-outlander-phev/
So for
1. on Electric 35 * 0.5 = 17p per Mile

for
2. from that webpage the PHEV does around 50MPG on a flat battery however it is really around 33MPG , so £5.55 / 33 = 17p per Mile

So running on Petrol is about the same at 17p vs 17p on electric.

Using the Charge button only really makes sense if you NEED to drive in EV mode in London CBD, otherwise it is just another energy conversion which generally involves losses. Having said that, using the Charge button carefully ONLY when you are doing over 65km/h (ie ICE is driving the wheels directly in parallel hybrid mode) is slightly more efficient than using the ICE below 65km/h in series hybrid mode. However that only works if you remember to switch charge on and off as you change speed above and below 65. If you don't want that hassle, just drive with the battery "empty" (the PHEV tries to maintain around 30% charge so no need to stress that the battery is totally flat as it isn't)
Last edited by zzcoopej on Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nibbo
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 4:55 am

Re: Best way for charging

Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:46 am

zzcoopej wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:31 pm
2. from that webpage the PHEV does around 50MPG on a flat battery, so £5.55 / 50 = 11p per Mile
50MPG :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

zzcoopej
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:57 pm
Location: Gosford, Australia
Contact: Website

Re: Best way for charging

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:04 am

Nibbo wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:46 am
zzcoopej wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:31 pm
2. from that webpage the PHEV does around 50MPG on a flat battery, so £5.55 / 50 = 11p per Mile
50MPG :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks for pointing this out.
In the modern world we work in litres per 100km so MPG is meaningless to me. Note to me - I shouldn't trust websites!
I'll adjust my calculations to 33 MPG which is equivalent to the 7litres/100km I get in Australia.

ChrisMiller
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:37 am
Location: Bucks

Re: Best way for charging

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:56 pm

I mentally work on 'home' electricity (~£0.12/kWh*) being about ⅓ the cost of running on petrol (~£1.20/litre*). The difference is almost exactly accounted for by the fact that ⅔ of the price of petrol is tax (in Europe, anyway), whereas domestic electricity is lightly taxed - how long this will continue to be the case is an interesting question!

* the actual costs go up and down, of course, but they do so more or less in sync - when the car was new, nearly 6 years ago, it was 10p and £1 respectively
GX4h (2016) since 23/12/2015

lohr500
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:36 am

Re: Best way for charging

Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:28 am

I have just ordered an Outlander phev direct from Mitsubishi UK and I am looking forward to collecting it in the next few weeks.
My plan is to charge it overnight using our existing Economy 7 tariff at £0.087 per kW.
I am also looking at the Octopus Go Faster tariff which gives 5 hours at £0.05 per kW.
As I mainly do short local runs, I am hoping that most of the time I can run purely on the battery. If I can get say 25 miles on a full 14kW charge that would work out at around £1.22 based on my current tariff.
If the Outlander achieved 40 miles per gallon running on petrol, the equivalent cost in fuel to cover 25 miles would be £3.66.
So I agree with ChrisMiler's estimate that it will be around 1/3 of the cost to run on electric vs petrol.
Well at least that's what I am hoping!!!

littlescrote
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:52 am

Re: Best way for charging

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:28 am

kW is an instantaneous power, you lot need to be talking in kWh which is an amount of energy.

lohr500
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:36 am

Re: Best way for charging

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 am

Agree, I should have stated the pricing in kWh!! But the logic still stands.

ps44
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:19 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Best way for charging

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:19 am

Bear in mind that while the battery capacity is 14kwh, only about 10kwh is actually usable (round numbers !). While the battery gauge might show empty the BMS won't discharge the battery below about 20%. Given various losses you'll consume about 11kwh to get 10kwh on board.

Like you plan, I do almost all my charging on cheap E7 rate, with the occasional day time top up, and manage all of my local driving on battery. I use the granny charger on a standard socket in the garage. Approx 30 mile range in this weather. And I can gas up and drive to Cornwall tomorrow with no messing about !

EssexBoy
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:38 am

Re: Best way for charging

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:35 am

For the OP I agree just putting in petrol is the least worst option cost wise. I figure mile for mile petrol is cheaper (bought from a supermarket) than using any public charger unless its free - I see Tesco offer free charging in some of their supermarkets now. Also note that slow home charging with the granny charger (I love my Granny) is best for battery health too. you might want to move if you are planning to stay with plug-in vehicle tech. Rather than the obsession with faster charging I want to know how to charge many of the new EV and PHEV models slowly. For many use cases we have all night to charge at home. I have on occasion at a hotel and elsewhere provided my own extension lead so I could reach the nearest 13amp supply. I think with a high quality lead this was okay - interested to hear any qualified concerns over such a practice. I locked my granny box in the boot and fed the extension in the passenger window making sure it was fully uncoiled of course. I doubt the tax on domestic electricity will rise as this is the one energy channel that facilitates displacement of fossil fuels with renewables at home - got my induction hob, electric combi boiler is next. What we need is genuine split tariffs such that we don't get punished in the daytime more than we are rewarded at night.

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