Bad UI

[maby]

The problem is a pain for every Outlander PHEV owner since 2013 ...

I guess i am not a PHEV owner by your definition - the whole issue doesn't bother me and is no pain at all... :roll:
Speak for yourself, and not for others. :x

Right ... yes ... it is enough one person don't agree out of 100.000 PHEV owner, and my sentence is technically wrong.

Still ... For me is "self evident" ... that the meaning of my text, if read without hyper critics eyes, it should sounds that this is a pain for most of the user since 2013

The fact that it is a pain for most (at least many) of users is very evident (but I guess this can be questioned, as it was already, since hyper critics eyes might not even accept that humans have been on the moon, or that the earth is flat or spherical):
Anyhow ... the hard evidence is:
- Somebody decided to commercialize a patch for this "defect"
- Somebody feel annoyed about how often this problem is repeated in this forum
- Tons or people report this as an issue on Facebook too.

Still ... maybe I'm missing something ... what I see, is an over reaction on a simple comment.

In my "modest view" : I believe too many people are too sensible about Mitsubishi .. and anybody that try to criticize any design decision ... it needs to be immediately blamed and scourged

Well, I don't think you can take the contents of this forum as evidence for how "most" or even "many" users feel about the design of the car - we have a few dozen members here, many of whom rarely contribute and have made no comment about the relative pattern of petrol and battery powered activity in the PHEV. I have not looked at the recent sales figures, but your post seems to indicate that there are at least 100,000 examples sold - we here are certainly not a scientifically chosen sample of the total ownership.

There was an article published by the BBC recently which described research indicating that a high proportion of the PHEVs sold in Britain, at least, had never been plugged in. That is thousands of owners who treat it as a petrol vehicle. I'm certainly in that category and do everything I can to minimise the usage of the battery - the short EV range makes it irrelevant to me and all I want is to maximise its lifetime.

 

[greendwarf]

The problem is a pain for every Outlander PHEV owner since 2013 ...

I guess i am not a PHEV owner by your definition - the whole issue doesn't bother me and is no pain at all... :roll:
Speak for yourself, and not for others. :x

Right ... yes ... it is enough one person don't agree out of 100.000 PHEV owner, and my sentence is technically wrong.

Still ... For me is "self evident" ... that the meaning of my text, if read without hyper critics eyes, it should sounds that this is a pain for most of the user since 2013

The fact that it is a pain for most (at least many) of users is very evident (but I guess this can be questioned, as it was already, since hyper critics eyes might not even accept that humans have been on the moon, or that the earth is flat or spherical):

How many is many? Certainly you accept that it is less than 50,000 but I don't see that even half the posters in this forum have complained. I agree that it seems to be a pain for some and probably anko is right that it should be easy to fix but are there enough "unhappy" drivers for Mitsu to consider it a priority and would it make any real difference to sales if it was changed? That is the real world question.

 

[jaapv]

Actually I even have the thingamejig to fool the temperature sensor lying around somewhere, as I got it for free with the V-Tech box, but I didn't even bother to try it out, as I consider it nonsense.

 

[anko]

Actually I even have the thingamejig to fool the temperature sensor lying around somewhere, as I got it for free with the V-Tech box, but I didn't even bother to try it out, as I consider it nonsense.

Meaning you don't understand the design decisions?

 

[anko]

The fact that people keep complaining may equally indicate that the do not understand the design decision.

Sorry Jaap. By justifying an unnecessary ICE start for moving the car from one parking bay to another as "a design decision that people do not understand" imho you totally disqualify yourself.

You may not care and that is fine. But it does not mean you understand the decision. If there was a deliberate decision yo begin with.

 

[jaapv]

Actually I even have the thingamejig to fool the temperature sensor lying around somewhere, as I got it for free with the V-Tech box, but I didn't even bother to try it out, as I consider it nonsense.

Meaning you don't understand the design decisions?

Quite possibly. I don't pretend to be a design engineer for a major car company and I'm certainly not a cheer leader for an Internet mob.

 

[jaapv]

The fact that people keep complaining may equally indicate that the do not understand the design decision.

Sorry Jaap. By justifying an unnecessary ICE start for moving the car from one parking bay to another as "a design decision that people do not understand" imho you totally disqualify yourself.

You may not care and that is fine. But it does not mean you understand the decision. If there was a deliberate decision yo begin with.

I don't think that moving from one parking bay to another @ less than 10º is the most common use. I think the decision was made that heating the car from a cold start for daily use in the most efficient way was the most likely scenario which prompted this particular setting. It would have been nice to have a user override, I agree, but it would probably not have made much difference in the overall economy of the car.

 

[STS134]

I don't think that moving from one parking bay to another @ less than 10º is the most common use. I think the decision was made that heating the car from a cold start for daily use in the most efficient way was the most likely scenario which prompted this particular setting. It would have been nice to have a user override, I agree, but it would probably not have made much difference in the overall economy of the car.

Sure. But isn't there an easy way to stop the ICE from starting? Either turn off the heater and/or just press EV mode immediately after starting. It's not like you'd even have heat moving a pure ICE car from one parking space to another either. This thing is a PHEV, not a BEV. It's supposed to use its ICE when it's advantageous to do so. Cold weather is one of the big scenarios that the ICE should be used, in general. In fact I was having a discussion with a friend, who owns a Tesla Model S, about whether Tesla should put a propane tank in their vehicles for heat during cold weather, because it's just so much more efficient using combustion to generate heat than trying to do it with electrical resistance.

In any case, the PHEV does extremely well in the snow. I was pleased with how well it did last weekend with the 4WD lock setting. Wheels didn't slip once when backing out of parking spaces in heavy snow.

 

[jaapv]

Older ones don't have EV mode, so it is slightly more complicated. But yes you can prevent starting (mostly).
As I said, to me it is a totally minor point. The design is what it is, and, overall, I like it.

 

[anko]

I don't think that moving from one parking bay to another @ less than 10º is the most common use. I think the decision was made that heating the car from a cold start for daily use in the most efficient way was the most likely scenario which prompted this particular setting.

No less than 1/3rd of my weekday trips were like this. If the default had been to use the electric heater instead of the ICE, the user would have had plenty of opportunity to override the default when needed (in other words for trips beyond EV range), Now, he has not. Unless he turns off the heater after every single trip. How can you ever excuse that?

It would have been nice to have a user override, I agree, but it would probably not have made much difference in the overall economy of the car.

Who is talking about economy? I am talking about engine wear and tear and the very bad exhaust fumes associated with cold starts. Apart from that it is extremely embarrassing when people make fun of you when your fully charged expensive PHEV (which has a very bad reputation as it is) cannot even drive 15 meters without starting the engine.

Again, it would have been SO EXTREMELY easy to fix this. IMHO, the only way somebody could be okay with that would be when he didn't care.

 

[maby]

...

Again, it would have been SO EXTREMELY easy to fix this. IMHO, the only way somebody could be okay with that would be when he didn't care.

I'm ok with it - and I certainly don't care....

 

[anko]

...

Again, it would have been SO EXTREMELY easy to fix this. IMHO, the only way somebody could be okay with that would be when he didn't care.

I'm ok with it - and I certainly don't care....

We know you don't. We know. :lol:

 

[anko]

Sure. But isn't there an easy way to stop the ICE from starting? Either turn off the heater and/or just press EV mode immediately after starting.

Which requires planning up front, so no, not easy. This should not have been needed if the default was the other way around. Also, if I wanted to have heat on a short trip within EV range, I couldn't have it without allowing the ICE to run (PHEV Box improves this a little bit). That is not why I bought a PHEV.

It's not like you'd even have heat moving a pure ICE car from one parking space to another either..

Exactly. So, why start the engine for this trip? This is the kind of trips the PHEV should excel in. And it doesn't. The fact that ICE cars don't even need these trips to begin with makes it more painful.

This thing is a PHEV, not a BEV..

Here we go again .... That is not an excuse for anything.

It's supposed to use its ICE when it's advantageous to do so.

How is it advantageous to start the engine to move the car from one parking bay to another?

I have often been in situations where the engine was forced to run by the car (to provide heat) but not long enough for the coolant to reach 70 deg C, simply because the trip was too short. So, the cabin never benefitted from the engine warmth. Yet, in the mean time the electric heater was blasting a way. How is that advantageous?

Of course, the car couldn't know that it was a bad decision because the car didn't know where we were going. So, it should have left the decision to me.

 

[jaapv]

Again, it would have been SO EXTREMELY easy to fix this. .

Which implies that Mitsubishi has a good reason not to "fix" it. Don't ask me, I don't know why...
Anyway I either use preheat or the car is in a heated garage -most of the time-, so to me it is a complete non-issue.

 

[Trex]

Which requires planning up front, so no, not easy. This should not have been needed if the default was the other way around. Also, if I wanted to have heat on a short trip within EV range, I couldn't have it without allowing the ICE to run (PHEV Box improves this a little bit). That is not why I bought a PHEV.

Exactly. So, why start the engine for this trip? This is the kind of trips the PHEV should excel in. And it doesn't. The fact that ICE cars don't even need these trips to begin with makes it more painful.

Here we go again .... That is not an excuse for anything.

How is it advantageous to start the engine to move the car from one parking bay to another?

I have often been in situations where the engine was forced to run by the car (to provide heat) but not long enough for the coolant to reach 70 deg C, simply because the trip was too short. So, the cabin never benefitted from the engine warmth. Yet, in the mean time the electric heater was blasting a way. How is that advantageous?

Of course, the car couldn't know that it was a bad decision because the car didn't know where we were going. So, it should have left the decision to me.

Ok, does this mean this upsets you Anko? :lol:

Well I say do not look at this as a problem but look it as a challenge and fix it for yourself ie modify the PHEV to suit yourself. I myself have modified heaps of machinery including cars, boats, airplanes, construction and factory equipment etc. The 5yr warranty on my oldest PHEV finishes in early April this year and I have some ideas I want to try on it myself BUT does not include the heater "challenge" (not a big enough "challenge" for me here in this climate) .

But to me being a Beechcraft Duke pilot (used in my business sometimes) pushing a couple of buttons on the PHEV when I start it or before I stop it is the least of my concerns. My checklist on the the Duke is 2 pages long just to take off. :roll:

Now for people forgetting to turn off say the heater before you stop the PHEV a little note stuck to the dash as a checklist reminder could help wonders IMHO. Then you can be just like a pilot.

Now before anyone says I am just showing off about being a pilot or words to that effect I consider that steering a plane around the sky would be possible by just about anyone. The hardest thing about it is all the other "stuff" (or crap I sometimes say :lol: ) you have to learn like meteorology, navigation, radio licence, aircraft performance and engines etc. Plus not killing yourself and others sometimes. :lol:

 

[maby]

...

I have often been in situations where the engine was forced to run by the car (to provide heat) but not long enough for the coolant to reach 70 deg C, simply because the trip was too short. So, the cabin never benefitted from the engine warmth. Yet, in the mean time the electric heater was blasting a way. How is that advantageous?

Of course, the car couldn't know that it was a bad decision because the car didn't know where we were going. So, it should have left the decision to me.

I have argued on a number of occasions for some kind of "sticky mode setting" together with several different modes to suit different driving styles - and several here strongly disagreed with me - primarily on the basis that the mode I wanted was a "long distance petrol mode" which would shift the centre of the hysteresis curve up to something like 50%. If anyone is in contact with Mitusbishi and in a position to make suggestions, ask them to give us several modes including things like "cold weather EV", "motorway towing" and "long distance" - I know that it is possible to get these effects by playing with the various buttons but it should not be necessary.

 

[STS134]

Which requires planning up front, so no, not easy. This should not have been needed if the default was the other way around. Also, if I wanted to have heat on a short trip within EV range, I couldn't have it without allowing the ICE to run (PHEV Box improves this a little bit). That is not why I bought a PHEV.

What's so hard about either pushing OFF on the climate control, or pushing the EV button?

The default setting should be the one that optimizes for the common case, and when driving around in very cold weather, the optimized behavior is to start the ICE and enjoy the free heat. If you don't want the ICE to start when you are moving between parking spaces, then override it by either switching off the heat, or turning on EV mode? I would actually prefer if the car defaulted to the last setting you used before shutting it down, but whatever. It's not that big of a deal. I know that every time I start it, I must select which mode I want.

Exactly. So, why start the engine for this trip? This is the kind of trips the PHEV should excel in. And it doesn't. The fact that ICE cars don't even need these trips to begin with makes it more painful.

Huh? ICE cars always start the ICE, even when moving between parking spaces only 10 meters apart. So I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

In any case, the default setting should be the one that optimizes for the common case, and when driving around in very cold weather, the optimized behavior is to start the ICE and enjoy the free heat. If you don't want the ICE to start when you are moving between parking spaces, then override it by either switching off the heat, or turning on EV mode.

How is it advantageous to start the engine to move the car from one parking bay to another?

I have often been in situations where the engine was forced to run by the car (to provide heat) but not long enough for the coolant to reach 70 deg C, simply because the trip was too short. So, the cabin never benefitted from the engine warmth. Yet, in the mean time the electric heater was blasting a way. How is that advantageous?

Of course, the car couldn't know that it was a bad decision because the car didn't know where we were going. So, it should have left the decision to me.

If your car is an older model that does not have an EV mode button (I was unaware that this was the case before reading this thread), then sell it and buy a new one that does have that mode. You're complaining that they haven't fixed the problem in the newer models, but they have. If you hit the EV mode button, the ICE will not start.

 

[jaapv]

Sell a car for one button? :lol: :lol:

 

[maby]

...

What's so hard about either pushing OFF on the climate control, or pushing the EV button?

....

The criticism is that, on a cold morning, the car typically does not give you time to hit any buttons before it starts the engine.

 

[jaapv]

Yeah, the cold really slows people down...