Motorway economy

[elm70]

What are the figure that you get when you trip on motorway/high at 130km/h or 140km/h ?

I see on my PHEV that I'm using around or over 10l every 100km ... that is not better then my 400HP BMW 335i

Is my engine old .. since my PHEV came 2nd hand with over 120k km on the clock .. or it is normal ?

Per my little trip home on motorway .. the history show an initial peak of 20L .. and then it got stable to around 13L .. and only on the final part of the trip it got a bit better going below 10L (always l/100km) ... quite shocking to me

 

[ChrisMiller]

Cruising at 140 kph in Britain is likely to get you a ticket - so congratulations on the world's highest speed limits

At 120 kph, I would expect around 8l/100km once the battery is 'empty', but don't forget that your PHEV is substantially larger and heavier than your BMW (and with a much worse Cd factor).

 

[elm70]

Cruising at 140 kph in Britain is likely to get you a ticket - so congratulations on the world's highest speed limits

At 120 kph, I would expect around 8l/100km once the battery is 'empty', but don't forget that your PHEV is substantially larger and heavier than your BMW (and with a much worse Cd factor).

140km/h ... not 140mph

In Poland 140km/h is the max speed allowed in the motor way ... in the rest of EU is 130km/h .. in Germany there is no speed limit in many places

Cruising at 140km/h on the clock is normal in EU ... since normally it is less then 130km/h ... here in Poland is safe and normal to cruise with 150km/h on the clock

In my long trip on motorway I'm always driving as fast as it is allowed ... so the economy at 140km/h it is something important .. in my book ... but ... I think for long trip I will use the BMW .. and I keep the PHEV for the daily duty

 

[user 816]

Remember the PHEV only has 119bhp engine and weights 2 tons, if you try to run near full speed for a long time it will use some battery to assist the drive - more quickly than it can recharge it as there is not enough spare power. Your battery will go below the allowed level and you will get 'reduced power mode' for a while when the car will lose some drive power and concentrate on recharging the battery a bit. You will have to slow down for a while.

If you don't keep accelerating and slowing too much, the PHEV will maintain about 130km/h pretty easily all day.

 

[Dusz]

The last time I was in Poland (28 years ago) there were no motorways and the speed limit was substantially lower.
Even with my previous diesel Civic when driving to Brussels through France I rarely drove at 130 kph as I found that it really affected the fuel economy once over 120 and it did not really add too much to the drive time.

 

[elm70]

Remember the PHEV only has 119bhp engine and weights 2 tons, if you try to run near full speed for a long time it will use some battery to assist the drive - more quickly than it can recharge it as there is not enough spare power. Your battery will go below the allowed level and you will get 'reduced power mode' for a while when the car will lose some drive power and concentrate on recharging the battery a bit. You will have to slow down for a while.

If you don't keep accelerating and slowing too much, the PHEV will maintain about 130km/h pretty easily all day.

Yes, you have a good point

This car is advertised as 200HP car , but in reality is more a 120HP gas mode and 80HP in electric mode (160HP when electric driven + engine running .. 200HP is a special combination available only at some speed)

Anyhow, my ex Duster with a 110HP and a very bad aerodinamic was capable to make 170km/h on the clock ... so .. this PHEV is also limited (by design) to 170km/h on the clock .. and this I believe can be managed consistently with the only 120HP ICE

Being heavy does not really effect top speed and consumption ... but yes, it has quite a huge surface that does not make it very efficient for cut into the air at "high speed"

Anyhow ... if people are doing 8L/100km at 120km/h ... my 10L at 140km/h sounds normal

I would have expect a bit more efficiency from this engine, since 2L and 120HP it is not really designed for be powerfull

Anyhow .. for what this car cost as new ... it should come with a turbo engine .. like BMW and Mercedes are doing on their new hybrids .. but this is a different story ...

 

[anko]

Anyhow, my ex Duster with a 110HP and a very bad aerodinamic was capable to make 170km/h on the clock ... so .. this PHEV is also limited (by design) to 170km/h on the clock .. and this I believe can be managed consistently with the only 120HP ICE

Agree.

Being heavy does not really effect top speed and consumption ... but yes, it has quite a huge surface that does not make it very efficient for cut into the air at "high speed"

Agree.

Anyhow ... if people are doing 8L/100km at 120km/h ... my 10L at 140km/h sounds normal

Agree.

 

[greendwarf]

And there are people (anko ) who insist the PHEV is NOT designed as a City car. Well it certainly isn't designed to be used as a high speed cruiser

 

[ChrisMiller]

Certainly if you have a choice of cars and don't need the load carrying capacity of the PHEV then your BMW will be a much better choice for long journeys at high speed.

The weight of the car does have a bearing on consumption - rolling resistance is proportional to weight. If you don't believe this, get three heavy friends to sit in your BMW and measure the fuel consumption compared to you on your own. Of course, at very high speeds the effect is small compared to wind resistance.

 

[ultralights]

i get 6.5 L/100Km on Australian motorways, and we have huge distances between cities, Melbourne, the closest is still 800Km away, Brisbane is 1200Km away.

i have done those trips a few times now, and averaged 6.5L/100 each time, but our speed limits are painfully slow, 110Kph MAX. at least at those speeds i can still recharge and get decent economy.

also. Drag force is exponential. so, drag at 140 compared to 110 will be almost double if not more. and a BMW 335I is a reasonably aerodynamic sedan, not a box like SUV. so getting 10L/100 km at 140 Kph, i would be happy with that.

 

[anko]

And there are people (anko ) who insist the PHEV is NOT designed as a City car. Well it certainly isn't designed to be used as a high speed cruiser

Like there is some space between 'hardcore off-roader' and 'city car', there is some space between 'high speed cruiser' and 'city car' as well, isn't there? I makes me wonder, why does it make you so happy to think of the PHEV as a city car?

 

[elm70]

Certainly if you have a choice of cars and don't need the load carrying capacity of the PHEV then your BMW will be a much better choice for long journeys at high speed.

The weight of the car does have a bearing on consumption - rolling resistance is proportional to weight. If you don't believe this, get three heavy friends to sit in your BMW and measure the fuel consumption compared to you on your own. Of course, at very high speeds the effect is small compared to wind resistance.

Rolling resistance may be proportional to the weight (not 100% sure, and my memory from study physic at university are fading) .,.. but it is a small factor /fraction compared to the aerodynamic resistance .. which goes up with square or cube proportion of the speed.

My BMW as reference is the E93, that is over 1700kg car ... so the PHEV is just 20% more ... BMW is power by a 3L twin turbo that is not really designed for be frugal in consumption .. the 2L 120HP in theory should be designed and optimized in consumption.

The main difference is the aerodynamic factor, that is not only the CX but the surface exposed to the air .. and this PHEV is quite tall and wide ... still ... I'm not really 100% sure this engine is really efficient when it need to produce over 80HP

There is a nice youTube video on the net, comparing the PHEV to the Diesel .. in a mix trip ... with motorway and city .. with two car driving together on the same path ... it end up that the Diesel version is more economical.

 

[elm70]

And there are people (anko ) who insist the PHEV is NOT designed as a City car. Well it certainly isn't designed to be used as a high speed cruiser

Like there is some space between 'hardcore off-roader' and 'city car', there is some space between 'high speed cruiser' and 'city car' as well, isn't there? I makes me wonder, why does it make you so happy to think of the PHEV as a city car?

City or no City ...

This car make sense if at least 66% of power used in a trip is coming from the battery .. that make a good car for who need no more then 50km round trip a day (can be 100km (50+50) if charger at destination is possible, something that sound like a luxus available to few people) ... as well .. trip excluding motorway ... so city trip or "slow" intercity trips ... and why not .. even for offroad trip, power by 4x4 electric power

Ideally should be used in 100% EV mode .. that means daily trip under 30km

 

[Steel188]

As I have said before, the PHEV makes a fabulous long distance cruiser. It is quiet, comfortable and offers an excellent view over the bonnet.

In recent years I have cut my annual mileage by 30% down to 35,000 miles pa. and I see no reason to crawl around everywhere. I use my Sat Nav as a speedo so I drive at the limit more accurately, and don't think twice when I need to drive from north of London to Cornwall, Scotland or any of the other places someone whose 'patch' is everywhere needs to go.

Yes, I use EV wherever possible, I use Save or Charge to ensure I have battery for city use, I charge it whenever I'm at the office; but it's a work tool so 35mpg (6.7l/100Km) on the motorway as discussed above, for an 188Kg brick, is acceptable.

Just like my diesel mpvs before, it is suited to anything and everything without a second thought, all be it, a very tax efficient one.

 

[elm70]

...
Yes, I use EV wherever possible, I use Save or Charge to ensure I have battery for city use, I charge it whenever I'm at the office; but it's a work tool so 35mpg (6.7l/100Km) on the motorway as discussed above, for an 188Kg brick, is acceptable.
...

Interesting ... 6.5L was reported with speed not exceeding 110km/h .. possibly 100km/h cruising ... so if you get 6.7 you must drive quite slow .... or you see the consumption mixed up with the electric saving

I did measure my consumption on motorway by resetting the "counter" .. while on the move .. so I did remove the impact from starting in EV mode or having some urban streets before enter motorway

Mainly it is for know if my PHEV after 120k km may have lost power and got less efficient .. I would expect that this engine should be capable to do easily over 300k km before significant degradation.

 

[greendwarf]

And there are people (anko ) who insist the PHEV is NOT designed as a City car. Well it certainly isn't designed to be used as a high speed cruiser

Like there is some space between 'hardcore off-roader' and 'city car', there is some space between 'high speed cruiser' and 'city car' as well, isn't there? I makes me wonder, why does it make you so happy to think of the PHEV as a city car?

Because I live, work & drive in London and the car performs perfectly in the role of a City car with no compromises - including the carrying capacity & range, which none of the rivals have at a similar price. Whilst it may well perform adequately as a high speed cruiser, soft roader etc. as well, this is a tribute to the brilliance of the overall (rather than base) design package - but these extras are all achieved with a measure of compromise - as numerous posts testify to.

So as I posted before, a better description is probably a "city dweller's" car, for those who don't want/can't (city parking space being at a premium) to have two cars, i.e. those like me who main use is in urban areas but want/need to occasionally venture outside. A lot of the happy non-city users are benefitting from the tax incentives rather than the design - again testified to here. :mrgreen:

 

[anko]

Because I live, work & drive in London and the car performs perfectly in the role of a City car with no compromises - including the carrying capacity & range, which none of the rivals have at a similar price.

London is not a city. London is a small country. If it works well in London, so does it do in all of the Netherlands :lol:

So as I posted before, a better description is probably a "city dweller's" car, for those who don't want/can't (city parking space being at a premium) to have two cars, i.e. those like me who main use is in urban areas but want/need to occasionally venture outside. A lot of the happy non-city users are benefitting from the tax incentives rather than the design - again testified to here. :mrgreen:

A rather black and white approach, IMHO. Yes, there are people who spend most of their motoring hours on the motorway and like to drive fast. For them, the car is probably a bad choice. Then there is you, who spent most time in the city of London. For you it is an excellent choice. Granted. But there are also tons of people who spent some time in the city and some time on the motorway. For these people, there is nothing wrong with the car.

BTW: My wife and I have two cars. Yet, we use the other car only when the PHEV is not available. Even on longer trips. Only on some shorter trips, she chooses to use the other car even when the PHEV is available. Why? The other car is a city car and is much easier to park in small spaces

 

[Grigou]

Anyhow ... if people are doing 8L/100km at 120km/h ... my 10L at 140km/h sounds normal

Don't worry, it is normal

I can even tell you that if you do 10 L/100 km at 140 km/h it is excellent (normally it's more than 10 L/100 km at 130 km/h (GPS)). But I understand that your 10 L is just an average measurement and your 140 kph was not permanent

 

[Yoran]

When the battery is empty i get 8l per 100km at 120-130. (2015 model) Not great, luckily it has tax advantages

 

[elm70]

Thanks for the info Yoran and Grigou

Good to know that my "old" PHEV is not already abused from the engine side

Definitely for long motorway trip ... I'm going to use my toy car, the BMW E93 335i

PS: Yes the 10L/100km @ 140kmh .. was not a precise figure ... but quite close to it ... I did reset the average consumption for have a more precise reading (I still have to find, assuming there is an instant consumption, like BMW has) ... and at time I was driving with empty battery.