Bad UI

[wws]

i3 REx has a severely undersized ICE though, in addition to limited cargo space. It literally cannot maintain a safe speed going up a mountain on ICE power alone; a PHEV can. https://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-rex-bevx-restrictions-plea-carb-unleash-rex/ I'd rather not have a BEVx, the restrictions are way too severe.

True. But even the original i3 had a EV range of 70-80 miles. And no doubt you are aware that the U.S. REx can easily be "coded" to Euro specs to get around the stupid CARB BEVx restrictions.

Volt will also start the ICE when it is really cold out in what is known as ERDTT (Engine Running Due To Temp) mode. The threshold is user selected at either 35°F or 15°F. (The 2019 lowered the lower thresholds a bit.) Does the Outlander have similar settings? Some Volt owners who were dissatisfied with the factory ERDTT options have taken to modifying the outdoor temp sensor to lower the temp where ERDTT comes on.

It is good to hear that the Outlander works well up in the Sierras. That is one of the reasons I'd consider buying one (to replace an older AWD vehicle of mine.)

 

[Trex]

I am not attempting to "Bash" hopefully someone at Mitsubishi picks this up as feedback.

mort IMO you were trolling and hoping to get some bites which you did. Well done. :lol:

Lets see what you wrote.

I am sure there is a related thread however I cant find it in the search engine.
The UI in the PHEV is terrible compared to my 13 Volt.
It drives me crazy that if I want to utilize the defroster on my 14 mile round trip commute the engine starts!
This is completely unnecessary.
Currently to prevent it I have to select EV, ECO, Auto on climate, Mode button three times to get to defrost/foot well.
Then if I forget to turn off climate when I leave the car the next start cycle the vehicle immediately starts the dam engine.
God I wish Tesla would start production of the "Y"
Is there a fix for this?
:evil:

Just reading that IMHO mort you have come into a forum of Mitsubishi PHEV owners trying to stir trouble or what I call trolling ie throwing out a bait to see how many bites you get. I bet with a little searching I could find related threads very easily. Hell you say so in your first sentence: "I am sure there is a related thread................"

Then you state this little beauty: "The UI in the PHEV is terrible compared to my 13 Volt." No IMO or I think, I believe or words to that effect just a broad statement that totally bashes the Mitsubishi PHEV IMHO. But you say you are not bashing so it must be trolling I think.

So what was, I think , your bashing or trolling about ? :? :

It drives me crazy that if I want to utilize the defroster on my 14 mile round trip commute the engine starts!
This is completely unnecessary.
Currently to prevent it I have to select EV, ECO, Auto on climate, Mode button three times to get to defrost/foot well.
Then if I forget to turn off climate when I leave the car the next start cycle the vehicle immediately starts the dam engine.

So to me it appears to be about unwanted engine starts in colder weather mixed in with some BS or crap IMHO .

You have a 14 mile round trip commute and you cannot preheat or pre-defrost the Mitsubishi PHEV to stop the ICE starting. I find that very hard to believe.

Have you actually set up the app on your mobile phone yet? Or you can use the SDA or MMCS to set up preheating and defrosting.

Then you finally finish with this:

God I wish Tesla would start production of the "Y"
Is there a fix for this?
:evil:

Now that is totally bashing or trolling IMHO. You hate the Mitsubishi PHEV and "wish Tesla would start production of the "Y"." comes across here I think.

It is totally useless for you to tell someone to just sell it and move on.

That's true. It is just wishful thinking by some of us around here to get rid of some of the VERY FEW haters, bashers and trolling whingers from this forum IMHO. :lol: But no they just keep hanging onto the Mitsubishi PHEV and just keep throwing out that bait to cause trouble. But that is just my opinion.

Also it should be noted that people who are active on the forum might believe that issues on the forum, even regularly discussed ones are common knowledge. As I noted in the OP, I could not find info on this problem using the search engine. I waited for this vehicle for 5 years, studying every thing I could about it on this forum on European forums, on the Mitsubishi website and I read every review I could find. No where was this mentioned.

So here we are back to more BS about searching and studying every thing IMHO. There is heaps about this on this forum alone.

Then we have this just to shove the boot in or bash or trolling IMO :

Stop making excuses for poor design. Our Volt has 80000 miles with no battery degradation and is driven like this every day. Believe me if Chevrolet can get it right than Mitsubishi has no excuse.

So the Volt has a perfect battery. Don't think so . It has a battery that intrudes into the cabin from memory. Is that good design. I do not think so but I am just a design mechanical engineer with experience in electrical engineering and motion control programming so what would I know. :roll: But the Volt does have liquid cooling of the battery from memory which I think is a better design than the Mitsubishi PHEV but I think more costly to manufacture and probably weighs more etc.

Now I read this on line:

"The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Drive Zero Car Guide August 6th 2018

............Mitsubishi has been selling their Outlander PHEV model now for a few years with great success.

It’s currently the highest selling PHEV in the world with over 150,000 sales as of the middle of 2018. It’s also one of the very few EV or PHEV’s (Plug-in Electric Vehicle) that is
actually for sale here in Australia too."

If you believe what Drive Zero Car Guide have to say and I cannot find anything to refute them yet Mitsubishi must be doing something right in their design ie out selling the Chevy Volt.

Hell over here (in Australia) the Holden Volt (as it is was called here) has been taken off the market ever since the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has been released from what I can see. Your "Believe me if Chevrolet can get it right than Mitsubishi has no excuse." is starting to look like BS or crap or trolling or just plain wrong IMHO.

"Currently the highest selling PHEV in the world" IMHO you should be proud to be part of Mitsubishi's success. But you being a Yank is probably pissed off some Japanese up start has beaten your beloved American brand known as Chevrolet. Yep probably just "sour grapes" showing here. But that is just my opinion. :lol:

I think the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is such a good practical design that I have bought two of them. One in April 2014 and another in April 2018 and both brand new.
No buying cheaper 2nd hand models for me and no subsidies provided here. I put my money where my mouth is and my family love them. I am very happy with my choice. But I do consider them NOT to be perfect and to me the newer model is a better car. Cannot wait for more improvements as time goes on.

 

[wws]

I'm also new here - so hesitant to get in the middle of a flame war. But GM has sold over 150,000 Volts in the U.S. alone. Add in Canada and some ROW and it has been a decent seller as far as PHEVs go - despite the fact that GM did almost zero marketing of it. IMHO GM engineers did a really good job on it. However its main drawback is its compact size. A LOT of Volt owners, myself included, would really like an Equinox-sized vehicle with a Voltec style drivetrain. The closest match to that currently on the U.S. market is the very newly-arrived Outlander PHEV. So drawing comparisons is natural...

 

[Trex]

I'm also new here - so hesitant to get in the middle of a flame war. But GM has sold over 150,000 Volts in the U.S. alone. Add in Canada and some ROW and it has been a decent seller as far as PHEVs go - despite the fact that GM did almost zero marketing of it. IMHO GM engineers did a really good job on it. However its main drawback is its compact size. A LOT of Volt owners, myself included, would really like an Equinox-sized vehicle with a Voltec style drivetrain. The closest match to that currently on the U.S. market is the very newly-arrived Outlander PHEV. So drawing comparisons is natural...

The Volt started selling first from memory but the Outlander PHEV has overtaken it in sales per year lately from what I can see. 2wd compared to 4wd and a decent size, no competitive comparison in my eyes. Mitsubishi engineers did a really good job on the Outlander PHEV. But that is just my opinion and the majority of the latest buyers of PHEVs it would seem.

The flame war was started by what I think is your Yank compatriot IMHO. :roll:

Edit.

Wikipedia state for the Chevy Volt:

"Deliveries to retail customers in the United States began in mid December 2010."

Outlander PHEV deliveries began in Jan 2013 in Japan.

Wikipedia also state for the Chevy Volt:

"Volt production ended in February 2019."

:shock:

They have stopped producing the Volt it would seem. Is this true?

 

[wws]

The Volt started selling first from memory but the Outlander PHEV has overtaken it in sales per year lately from what I can see. 2wd compared to 4wd and a decent size, no competitive comparison in my eyes. Mitsubishi engineers did a really good job on the Outlander PHEV. But that is just my opinion and the majority of the latest buyers of PHEVs it would seem.

They are, of course, a different classification of vehicle. But as far as how to implement a PHEV in general, the Volt has been the class act in the U.S. ever since it was introduced. (I looked very carefully at Ford Energi, BMW i3, and others before buying our Volt. Had to qualify for California HOV lane passes too...) The Outlander PHEV is very new to the North American market, so we are just starting to learn about what Mitsu did or didn't do well. It is a _very_ different design than Voltec.

 

[wws]

... "Volt production ended in February 2019."

:shock:

They have stopped producing the Volt it would seem. Is this true?

Sadly true. The factory it was being built in was underutilized. So they stopped production of all the cars that were being built there. Volt got caught in the crossfire. I think they are still building the Chinese Buick version in China though.

 

[Trex]

... "Volt production ended in February 2019."

:shock:

They have stopped producing the Volt it would seem. Is this true?

Sadly true. The factory it was being built in was underutilized. So they stopped production of all the cars that were being built there. Volt got caught in the crossfire. I think they are still building the Chinese Buick version in China though.

Thanks for the quick reply wws.

Well I will not be dancing on the Chevy Volt's grave. As an design engineer I think that is unfortunate that some of IMO GM's management decisions probably overrode the design engineering and sales department in not coming out with something to compete with the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's success. But I am just guessing here.

Like I said before I like the liquid cooling of the Volt's traction battery compared with the Air Conditioned (AC) cooling of the Outlander PHEV especially for hot climates like Australia and elsewhere. But AC cooling is used by others including the BMW i3 from memory and is far better IMO than no active cooling at all like from memory the Nissan Leaf.

 

[wws]

...Well I will not be dancing on the Chevy Volt's grave. As an design engineer I think that is unfortunate that some of IMO GM's management decisions probably overrode the design engineering and sales department in not coming out with something to compete with the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's success. But I am just guessing here.

Since is has been so late to enter the North American market, I'm not sure the Outlander PHEV has ever been on GMs radar. And now GM has stated their future will be with pure BEV - not PHEV.

Like I said before I like the liquid cooling of the Volt's traction battery compared with the Air Conditioned (AC) cooling of the Outlander PHEV especially for hot climates like Australia and elsewhere. But AC cooling is used by others including the BMW i3 from memory and is far better IMO than no active cooling at all like from memory the Nissan Leaf.

GM temperature controls their packs at least as well as Tesla does. There are a lot of Volts with over 100k miles now, and almost negligible battery deterioration. Bolt EV seems to be achieving a comparable reputation.

I do wonder how the Mitsus pack cooling will work in the long term here in Silicon Valley. It can get pretty hot in the summer - though not Arizona hot.

But back to the OPs problem. Does Mitsu have a menu to select what temp threshold to run the ICE in the cold? If not, is it easy to get to the appropriate outside air temp sensor and change its range (e.g., via carefully chosen resistors) to something more palatable? As I mentioned a few posts ago, some Volt owners have been doing this for years.

 

[Trex]

I do wonder how the Mitsus pack cooling will work in the long term here in Silicon Valley. It can get pretty hot in the summer - though not Arizona hot.

The hottest I have seen the temp of the cells in the 40s C here is 35C PHEV standing out in the blazing sun and the PHEV turned off so no active cooling. The battery box is under the car so it is shaded to some degree.

But back to the OPs problem. Does Mitsu have a menu to select what temp threshold to run the ICE in the cold? If not, is it easy to get to the appropriate outside air temp sensor and change its range (e.g., via carefully chosen resistors) to something more palatable? As I mentioned a few posts ago, some Volt owners have been doing this for years.

Ok did the Volt have preheat or pre-defrost or pre-cooling while plugged in or stopped? That to me is very good feature of the Outlander phev.

 

[anko]

Well actually my daily commute is a bit further than from parking bay to parking bay.

Your daily commute is not everybody's daily commute.

Exactly - and it appears to me that Mitsubishi caters for the most common use.

I a should have pulled out of this 'discussion' several days ago. Or even better, not get involved. You are just tolling.

 

[anko]

As I explained in many cases, it is not for free. And in many cases, there is no heat at all. You seem to ignore this.

Sometimes, I get no heat when I start the car for maybe about 1-2 minutes. But that's not relevant when moving from one parking bay to another.

Full stop please, as you keep beating around the bush. Can you please explain to me how it is advantageous to start the ICE of a plug-in hybrid vehicle when all you mean to do is move it from one parking bay to another? Because so far, you haven't.

BTW: From what I have read, the new EV button reduces the issue a little bit, but does not take it away. To me, that would be an absolute dealbreaker.

I have never had the ICE start due to climate control use in EV mode.

Good for you. I have read, for example, this (https://cleartechnology.nl/ev-priority-mitsubishi-outlander-phev/ via Google Translate):

Few exceptions
With the help of the EV Priority function, you give the drive system the task of turning off the combustion engine - which, in addition to acting as a drive motor, also functions as a generator. However, there are a number of situations in which the engine can still start in EV Priority mode.

For example if the climate control has to work very hard to get the desired temperature in the interior, for example in the morning on a cold winter day or if the car has been in the burning sun for hours. To prevent the air conditioning system from draining the whole battery, the engine will start to provide additional power.

If you want to prevent the engine from running anyway, it is advisable to switch off the climate control before you switch off the car. That will also remain if you start the car again next time. The EV Priority function must also be switched on again each time.

The engine will also start if you turn on the windshield heating (defroster), while the accelerator pedal goes full (kick-down) or goes faster than 120 km / h.

I don't own a PHEV with EV Priority button. But reading this and other similar reports means I am not going to either.

Of course I can. But every time I forget, it is another meaningless cold start with associated wear and tear and bad exhaust fumes. And typically I have other things on my mind that turning off the heat when I rush out between two meetings to move my car.

If you are forgetting each and every time, then it literally must not be that important. I once drove my previous car about 2 blocks on a flat tire, and ruined a tire that could have been patched, and had to buy 4 new matching tires. Guess what's on my checklist before starting the vehicle now?

Again, a rather senseless argument. Who said I was forgetting each and every time? Plus, the fact that something is not top priority, does not mean it is not important. And WHY are we even having this stupid discussion? Only because they do not allow me to outsmart the car in a practical way. And no, although turning off the heater at the end of every single trip may be doable, it is not a practical way.

 

[anko]

I am not attempting to "Bash" hopefully someone at Mitsubishi picks this up as feedback.

mort IMO you were trolling and hoping to get some bites which you did. Well done. :lol:

Lets see what you wrote.

+1. Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[mort]

Trex, Thanks for your beautiful dissertation on who I am! nicely done. You are a man of many words however mostly B.S.

Actually I am not trolling at all. I have identified an issue with a vehicle that I mostly otherwise love to drive and remain proud of.
This is actually an issue for me.
I do not live in a extreme climate. our average daily winter temperatures are in the 40's (F.)
We might experience 5 mornings a year in the 20F degree range. This is a very temperate climate.
It is warm enough that I do not regularly use heat other than my seat heat, or the occasional offending defrost.
My typical defrost session is completed before the air vents even begin to produce any warmth yet the engine is still running.
I don't even utilize level 2 charging at home, that is for my wife's car, strait 12 amp 120v level 1 is good for my needs, as a result you're right I never pre-heat.
Pre heating is not necessary we don't get frost. Defrost is only needed due to our high humidity, occupants drinking steamy beverages or at times wet clothes.
I must apologize, I wrote the first post in frustration after the 15th day in a row that the ICE started in the morning because I forgot to hit the EV button, hit the ECO button, select auto Mode, then press mode , one, two, three times, all in 2 seconds before the engine starts.
I guess that I just got too used to the common sense approach of a mode that remains on until deselected, offered by other PHEV makers. Shame on me!
You see sometimes when I come home at night and its cold (around 42 F) I feel like running the heat. I can do this in my 18 PHEV on pure EV because my commute is perfectly average in the U.S.A. and under 20 miles. When I turn it on I always remember to first select EV and ECO. If I want defrost I follow the above 6 button action. The problem is when I get home at the end of a long day, happy to greet my family I sometimes forget to de select climate control. My bad, I guess I'm just stupid.

As other posters have noted, some times I do shuffle the cars around to hasten charging, why does the ICE have to start when driving 8 feet?

You're problem is that you just went all aggro on me, instead of offering the constructive ideas that fellow good natured posters like, Elm70 offered or the interesting musing by Maybe, or perhaps the good advise from Nils944.

I regularly drive the PHEV out of its EV only range and in that case I do run the heat prematurely to heat up the cabin for the family and increase efficiency but I always arrive with a depleted battery.

I am proud of my 85MPG lifetime rating on a car with 10000 miles on it.

As a new poster here, could I suggest tamping down the asshole effect you have brought, I don't know maybe you are a drinking commenter?

I am supper sorry I offended you're sensibilities.

 

[mort]

I am not attempting to "Bash" hopefully someone at Mitsubishi picks this up as feedback.

mort IMO you were trolling and hoping to get some bites which you did. Well done. :lol:

Lets see what you wrote.

+1. Couldn't have said it any better.

Sorry, my 5th post was mostly for you!

 

[STS134]

Full stop please, as you keep beating around the bush. Can you please explain to me how it is advantageous to start the ICE of a plug-in hybrid vehicle when all you mean to do is move it from one parking bay to another? Because so far, you haven't.

It's not advantageous. So work around it by turning off climate control, so that the engine does not start. As I said before, you're not going to die without heat when moving your car from one parking bay to another.

Again, a rather senseless argument. Who said I was forgetting each and every time? Plus, the fact that something is not top priority, does not mean it is not important. And WHY are we even having this stupid discussion? Only because they do not allow me to outsmart the car in a practical way. And no, although turning off the heater at the end of every single trip may be doable, it is not a practical way.

Turning off the heater at the end of every trip? Probably not doable in a practical way, and probably you don't want to do this either. You don't know if you're going to be moving parking bays or going across town the next time you start it, and you don't even necessarily know what the temperature will be the next time you start it. But turning off the heater after you get in the car and before you start it? That's totally doable in a practical way, because when you get in the car, you're thinking about how you don't want the ICE to start. So, turn on the ignition WITHOUT starting the car, turn off the climate control, then start the car.

 

[anko]

Trex, Thanks for your beautiful dissertation on who I am! nicely done. You are a man of many words however mostly B.S.

Actually I am not trolling at all. I have identified an issue with a vehicle that I mostly otherwise love to drive and remain proud of.
This is actually an issue for me.
I do not live in a extreme climate. our average daily winter temperatures are in the 40's (F.)
We might experience 5 mornings a year in the 20F degree range. This is a very temperate climate.
It is warm enough that I do not regularly use heat other than my seat heat, or the occasional offending defrost.
My typical defrost session is completed before the air vents even begin to produce any warmth yet the engine is still running.
I don't even utilize level 2 charging at home, that is for my wife's car, strait 12 amp 120v level 1 is good for my needs, as a result you're right I never pre-heat.
Pre heating is not necessary we don't get frost. Defrost is only needed due to our high humidity, occupants drinking steamy beverages or at times wet clothes.
I must apologize, I wrote the first post in frustration after the 15th day in a row that the ICE started in the morning because I forgot to hit the EV button, hit the ECO button, select auto Mode, then press mode , one, two, three times, all in 2 seconds before the engine starts.
I guess that I just got too used to the common sense approach of a mode that remains on until deselected, offered by other PHEV makers. Shame on me!
You see sometimes when I come home at night and its cold (around 42 F) I feel like running the heat. I can do this in my 18 PHEV on pure EV because my commute is perfectly average in the U.S.A. and under 20 miles. When I turn it on I always remember to first select EV and ECO. If I want defrost I follow the above 6 button action. The problem is when I get home at the end of a long day, happy to greet my family I sometimes forget to de select climate control. My bad, I guess I'm just stupid.

As other posters have noted, some times I do shuffle the cars around to hasten charging, why does the ICE have to start when driving 8 feet?

You're problem is that you just went all aggro on me, instead of offering the constructive ideas that fellow good natured posters like, Elm70 offered or the interesting musing by Maybe, or perhaps the good advise from Nils944.

I regularly drive the PHEV out of its EV only range and in that case I do run the heat prematurely to heat up the cabin for the family and increase efficiency but I always arrive with a depleted battery.

I am proud of my 85MPG lifetime rating on a car with 10000 miles on it.

As a new poster here, could I suggest tamping down the asshole effect you have brought, I don't know maybe you are a drinking commenter?

I am supper sorry I offended you're sensibilities.

Although I totally agree with Trex' response to your opening post, this time I am with you. It is an issue for me as well. But there are many ways to express this. Your opening post left (almost) no room for people to be happy with their car. BTW: Some of the responses, such as those from Jaapv and STS134 did not leave much room for people to be unhappy with the car either.

I guess it is the tone that makes the music.

 

[mort]

Trex, I find it really interesting that at some point this topic was of interest to you as well.

"Who is ready to "hack" the Phev to get EV only mode?" Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:28 pm

From you

" 1. A defined goal ie EV only mode."

I should have said 1. A defined goal ie EV only mode or what ever we decide we want to improve.

Let us assume we try to fix this problem first. ie stop the petrol motor starting in the colder climates when the Phev has a electric heater. It is probably the easier of our wanted improvements and we have to start somewhere. MOT, EU and ADR might not even care. :lol:"

 

[anko]

It's not advantageous.

Finally we agree: if you allow the car to do its own thing it WILL perform unnecessary ICE starts causing unnecessary wear and tear and exhaust.

As I said before, you're not going to die without heat when moving your car from one parking bay to another.

Where have I said I needed heat to move my car around? Please stop this.

... because when you get in the car, you're thinking about how you don't want the ICE to start. So, turn on the ignition WITHOUT starting the car, turn off the climate control, then start the car.

Whether I need a 'checklist on arrival' or I need a 'checklist on departure' does not really make a difference. I don't want to need a checklist at all. And with a very simple modification I wouldn't.

 

[jaapv]

Actually, the hack is quite simple: replace the fuel pump fuse by a bit of wiring and a switch and ignore the warning messages.

 

[maby]

....

Turning off the heater at the end of every trip? Probably not doable in a practical way, and probably you don't want to do this either. You don't know if you're going to be moving parking bays or going across town the next time you start it, and you don't even necessarily know what the temperature will be the next time you start it. But turning off the heater after you get in the car and before you start it? That's totally doable in a practical way, because when you get in the car, you're thinking about how you don't want the ICE to start. So, turn on the ignition WITHOUT starting the car, turn off the climate control, then start the car.

Does this work for early model European cars? This topic has been done to death here in the past and I don't recall the option of booting the car without starting it followed by turning off climate control ever being mentioned. It's not something that has ever concerned me very much, but I was under the impression that the climate control functions only worked once the car had been fully booted up.