Charge / Save / default

[PeterGalbavy]

Confused of Finchley writes...

Having only read the Australian manual PDF and still 24+ hours from my PHEV I was wondering; The Charge and Save buttons make sense to me but what isn't clear is if it's simply one or the other or can both be off? Just wondering 'cause I am not sure what the cars default scheme is?

 

[Regulo]

Perplexed of Pitsea replies . . .

They are off by default and you turn them on manually. Never tried both at once, so don't know which would take precedence - probably Charge. Mr. gwatpe from Down Under has devised a way of making these switches "sticky" i.e. remembering their state when switched off, so they retain the setting when you next turn on. (I think!). He's also put enough lights on the front of his car to light the way from Perth to Sydney from his front drive. He frightens me!

 

[maby]

You can't engage both at once - Charge effectively implies Save anyway.

The default is neither - the car just uses up all available battery then falls back to petrol

 

[jaapv]

No it does not fall back to petrol only. It reverts to a Save mode at the lowest level, i.e. oscillating around "zero", but it is still operating in normal hybrid mode, although I have a feeling it charges a bit more aggressively in this state.

Only if you manage to deplete it a further 10% approx. will it rely on petrol power only, show a turtle and reduce power. A rare occurrence in normal use. Heavy loads, long steep hills and extreme Audi-style driving, mostly a combination of the three, will trigger this situation.
However it will show a "reducing power" message with Bong first, allowing you to ease off and avoid the actual situation.

The buttons are one or the other or neither.

Save means the car attempts to hold the actual battery level (but can drop gradually as the car forgets previous levels)

Charge means the car will attempt to charge the battery up to 80% and keep it there

Neither means the car will allow the battery to drop to about 30% (showing as one bar) and then will engage Save mode automatically without showing the mode on the dash.

 

[maby]

No it does not fall back to petrol only. It reverts to a Save mode at the lowest level, i.e. oscillating around "zero", but it is still operating in normal hybrid mode, although I have a feeling it charges a bit more aggressively in this state.

..

OK - let me rephrase that - when the battery goes flat, it becomes a petrol driven vehicle - there is no other source of motive power. At speeds up to around 40mph, it is a petrol driven vehicle with an electric transmission. All motive power comes from the petrol engine driving the generator, much of the output is used to drive the motors directly, some spare output is fed into the battery which is allowed to charge up to some extent, Periodically, the petrol engine is stopped and this charge is consumed in the motors - but it is charge that was derived by burning petrol in the first place.

At speeds above about 40mph, the single speed gearbox is engaged and the petrol engine can drive the car directly. It can also simultaneously drive the generator and charge the battery; the battery can drive the electric motors and the actual balance of power distribution to the wheels between direct mechanical drive and electrical drive is adjusted to match road speed and loading. In practice, if you are cruising at speeds between 50 and 60mph on cruise control on a flat road, it will spend long periods of time running effectively as a front-wheel-drive petrol car.

 

[anko]

OK - let me rephrase that - when the battery goes flat, it becomes a petrol driven vehicle - there is no other source of motive power.

True, if by 'flat' you mean 17% SOC. As long as you are above that (and most of the time most of us will be), the battery is still a potential power source.

 

[jaapv]

I think most if not all readers of this forum will understand "empty battery" as the state that the SOC indicator has dropped all the way down to one bar and the Guessometer displays --.-- .

Getting down to Turtle Mode is the car entering an emergency procedure to keep you moving as well as possible. A kind of digital Cheyne-Stokes breathing.

 

[maby]

and as soon as the battery gets down to the 20 or 30% floor level, it ceases to be a power source and becomes a power buffer. If you've been driving 40 or 50 miles since your last charge, you are driving a petrol vehicle with an electric transmission. There will be occasions when the petrol engine is not running and the car is moving under the power of the motors draining the battery, but it is consuming charge that was put there by the petrol engine a few minutes earlier - that is a petrol powered car.

 

[jaapv]

Yes- but that is exactly what you are doing on "Save" and on "Charge" (when it reaches 80%) as well.
The only difference is that your power buffer will be larger.
On floor level it will be about 2km EV operation, on other settings more corresponding to the higher SOC

 

[maby]

Yes- but that is exactly what you are doing on "Save" and on "Charge" (when it reaches 80%) as well.
The only difference is that your power buffer will be larger.

I was referring to your statement in response to my post "No it does not fall back to petrol only." - and by definition it falls back to petrol (I didn't use the word "only" though it is strictly correct) - since there is no other source of power once you have consumed the charge that you took on from the mains. If you only ever do short journeys and charge frequently, you can drive a PHEV without ever burning petrol (ok - after a long enough period it insists on cycling some fuel) - but if you drive beyond the EV range you will enter a phase in which it becomes a 100% petrol driven car. If you never plug it up to charge and only drive short distances, it is still a 100% petrol driven car.

 

[jaapv]

It took some posts to dig out a consensus...

 

[NAPpy]

What was the topic about?

 

[anko]

... but if you drive beyond the EV range you will enter a phase in which it becomes a 100% petrol driven car. If you never plug it up to charge and only drive short distances, it is still a 100% petrol driven car.

If it is a petrol driven car once you get to an SOC of 26 to 30%, then it is also a petrol driven car at 70% when driving in Save mode (although a less efficient one). So, what's the point you try to make? IMHO, the only difference is the size of the buffer, or that from 26 - 30% it will be easier to Turtle the car, than it will be from 70%.

 

[anko]

... but if you drive beyond the EV range you will enter a phase in which it becomes a 100% petrol driven car. If you never plug it up to charge and only drive short distances, it is still a 100% petrol driven car.

If it is a petrol driven car once you get to an SOC of 26 to 30%, then it is also a petrol driven car at 70% when driving in Save mode (although a less efficient one). So, what's the point you try to make? IMHO, the only difference is the size of the buffer, or the fact that from 26 - 30% it will be easier to Turtle the car, than it will be from 70%.

 

[maby]

... but if you drive beyond the EV range you will enter a phase in which it becomes a 100% petrol driven car. If you never plug it up to charge and only drive short distances, it is still a 100% petrol driven car.

If it is a petrol driven car once you get to an SOC of 26 to 30%, then it is also a petrol driven car at 70% when driving in Save mode (although a less efficient one). So, what's the point you try to make? IMHO, the only difference is the size of the buffer, or that from 26 - 30% it will be easier to Turtle the car, than it will be from 70%.

I was responding to jaapv who objected to me talking about the car "falling back to petrol" - which it clearly does once you run out of charge.

 

[tun]

Slightly related on this topic... Does anyone had experience a fall on electric range even when you press the save button? Or is this something common?

Thanks.

 

[maby]

Slightly related on this topic... Does anyone had experience a fall on electric range even when you press the save button? Or is this something common?

Thanks.

It is common - Save is not particularly aggressive and will allow the charge level to drift down. The exact parameters are still unclear, but it is certainly the case that if you unplug from a charging station, start the car and press the Save button immediately, then spend several days driving without charging and pressing Save as soon as you start the car, you will end up with a flat battery.

I believe that the explanation is that when you press Save, the power controller sets the target charge level to the state of charge when the button was pressed, but then goes into a small-cycle charge-discharge mode. Unless you catch it at the top of a cycle when you stop the car, the state of charge when you power down becomes the new target charge level the next time you start it and press Save.

 

[tun]

Thanks...

 

[PeterGalbavy]

I seem to have spawned a monster...

For someone who doesn't yet know their driving pattern with respect to the EV part shall I just leave both off for now and see how it goes? I am unlikely to do any motorway driving in the first couple of weeks.

 

[Regulo]

Ignore them, Peter, they're geeks! Just drive it, and you'll find what suits you.