Charging in an enclosed area

[Tabvla]

In the User Manual (or any other documentation) is there any reference to NOT charging in an enclosed environment - for example a garage ?

I have viewed a number of official Mitsubishi videos on the PHEV. In ALL the videos the PHEV is always charged outside in open air.

The latest video was released about a week ago and comes from Mitsubishi in Austria. In this video the presenter is based at his home, which has a garage. In some of the shots the PHEV is parked in the garage - so he does use it as a garage. However, every time he connects the cable to charge the PHEV he first takes the PHEV out of the garage and then plugs in the cable to the mains socket, which is inside the garage. Consequently, while charging the garage door stands open. The video is in German so I am a bit lost as to what he is saying while doing this.

Are there any risks associated with charging in an enclosed environment ? For example, fire or the potential of toxic gases being given off by a faulty cell ?

T.

 

[jaapv]

There are no warnings about this issue. I would say not a problem. Lithium batteries do not produce fumes.

 

[Tabvla]

There are no warnings about this issue. I would say not a problem. Lithium batteries do not produce fumes.

Hi Jaapv, thanks for your reply. I agree, under normal circumstances, intact and fault-free Li-ion batteries do not produce fumes.

However, if a cell is faulty and overheats it does produce fumes of floride which are toxic. If exposed to fumes it is recommended that you seek medical help immediately. (Reference : Honeywell Corporation, Global Technology Systems, Safety Data Sheet HDR202-Li ).

T.

 

[jaapv]

Even then on the PHEV they are pretty well enclosed and have their own climate control system. I would say the risk is minimal.

 

[Tabvla]

So...... the risk of fire or fumes from charging overnight in a garage which connects to the house should be minimal ?

I still find it just a little strange that the demonstator in the Austrian video takes the PHEV out of the garage (which in the video is adjoined to the house) then connects the cable to the wall socket inside the garage, to charge. The PHEV charging point, when inside the garage, is right next to the wall socket. The demonstator could much more easily have simply taken out the charging cable, plugged it in and started charging with the vehicle inside the garage.

If you want to, you can check every video produced by Mitsubishi. Not one of them shows the PHEV being charged inside a garage - always outside. I am just wondering if Mitsubishi are in this way trying to get a message across that you should charge the vehicle in an open-air space.

T.

 

[schlumbel]

I'd guess the videos show the charging outside, because light for the camera is better than inside a garage and some background with nature supports the environmental friendly aspects.
Charging outside, I would worry more about rain flooding the connector area while voltage is applied.

 

[Tabvla]

Charging outside, I would worry more about rain flooding the connector area while voltage is applied.

Me too.... :shock:

T

 

[valdemarsvik]

I have charged outdoors several times during very heavy rain. Am I stupid?

 

[Fragge]

Why would you worry about rain in the connector? Unless it's raining saltwater you are fine. Freshwater doesn't conduct electricity. The connector itself is sealed so the water won't go into the car.

 

[pupenhausen]

Having designed and built my own electric mountain bike and know of the dangers of li-ion batteries, I would charge it outside. I have seen many cases of li-ion batteries exploding into flames when overcharged. There are loads of videos on youtube, cars, bikes, laptops, all setting fire to the garage/house. Once the reaction starts it is nearly impossible to extinguish. That's why I used the heavier but much longer life Lifepo4 cells as they are far less prone to overcharging problems. With that said, Mitsubishi has already been through these teething problems and I suspect that the battery is monitored with a high tech BMS and many other safety features which will prevent this from happening. Tesla had to learn the hard way when some of their Model S's have randomly bust into flames at the traffic lights! Having said that I would be a bit wary going to bed at night having 2 kids in the house with it on charge in the garage, even if there is only less than 1% chance of a fire.

 

[Fragge]

Modern Li-Ions are considered quite safe. The gasoline part of the car is more likely to catch fire than the batteries. Li-Po batteries on the other hand are quite scary and are almost never used in commercial applications. Mostly for special needs of high energy and discharge rates, i.e. RC applications.
Apple use Li-Po in iPhones to maximize battery life and the chance of their customers burning to a crisp.

The Tesla incident was cleared as a non problem after investigations. Tesla still beefed up the protective plating around the battery as a precaution.

 

[schlumbel]

"...charging in the rain", no it was "singing..."
This is really interesting...
Even freshwater is conductive (unless technically purified with enormous effort) and the connectors are from what I see not waterproof, a bit protected but not tightly sealed (...would you use a hairdryer in the freshwater tub ? ;-). I expect that there is some safety mechanism (safety circuit breaker) in the charger cable electronics; but anyhow, my feeling is that charging outside in the rain is "suspect". Would you use an electric lawn mower with an extension cable outside in the rain ? even if the danger is very limited with fuses and so.
On the other hand there are even public fast charger stations without a protective roof ...

 

[jaapv]

The plugs used are Mennekes and they are industrial standard waterproof. Which means they are splash-proof but not submersible. If you are using household standard outside plugs in the charging circuit they should be shielded from direct rain.
That is all.
I have been charging the car by both methods in heavy rain and snow Since December and not a single electron has managed to make an escape.
It would be pretty silly for Mitsubishi to use a construction that could electrocute their customers. How could they hope for repeat sales that way? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[maddogsetc]

:lol:

 

[schlumbel]

This is what Mitsubishi says for charging in rain:
"All the charging connections are rated to IP55 so charging and even driving in the rain or going through a carwash is no problem. Care should be taken to plug in the car before connecting to the power source so there is no open connection."

And here is a good description of the safety standards ... ground-fault protection is the key.
http://www.autosavant.com/2011/01/25/dont-be-shocked-but-ev-charging-is-very-safe/