Ecotricity charge points

[Jkwilly]

Hi Guys
picked up my Gh3x friday, miles of smiles , my first run 12 miles home, recharged the off the Skegness for a music weekend plotted all my ecotricity charge points on the way BUT!! got up to 99.9 mpg and the display reset :!: would you believe, i was watching it intensely, Any how got the our destination charged overnight twice with the 13amp Mitsubishi lead and box.
On my journey home today I noticed when I plug into the the ecotricty fast charger that its sowing batt level 33% remaining when showind 0 miles on the car display hmmmm!!! then next charge point it was showing 31% remaining !!! , surely the drive battery should run down much less than 33% when the the last charge to charge point was 57mile and it was showing 1 mile remaining ih the battry had been running on ice since cant quite get my head around it , some of you guys are saying 125 mpg, 245 mpg and more , does mpg over 100 mpg show on the outlanders display ?, the journey was a combination of over the Pennines and the relatively flat lands of Cheshire and Lincolnshire, I did just over 400 miles and the tank is fuel gauge is showing 3/4 full the trip it took as while with charging and coffee and one place a couple of (shall we say none pro path tramcars in 2 transit vans, you know the type that looked as if the weeds break through after they have moved on! ) they where parked in the electric bays, so that took me about 25 mins or so find them and get the to reluctantly move, but all in all a great trip in eco mode lightly driven heater set to 19.5 degrees was wonderful , but i would really like to know if anyone else if getting 33% on the ecocity charger display when the battery is showing empty on the car!
ill top up the fuel tomorrow and get a a true mpg on the trip
Regards
A Now Delighted GH3X Pearl White Owner
John

 

[aitchjaybee]

Yes, the 30% real remaining is to protect battery condition. It goes down to about 16% before turtle mode kicks in. The phev dash says empty at real 30% because you can't override the software to use it. If you run out of petrol, or climb steep hills, the software will let you use some.
It's described better on other threads in the forum, I was just trying to give you a quick answer.

 

[maby]

Yes, the 30% real remaining is to protect battery condition. It goes down to about 16% before turtle mode kicks in. The phev dash says empty at real 30% because you can't override the software to use it. If you run out of petrol, or climb steep hills, the software will let you use some.
It's described better on other threads in the forum, I was just trying to give you a quick answer.

Exactly - apart from the risk of battery damage, the car would be inoperable without a moderate level of charge - the HV battery is what starts the engine and provides the boost for acceleration from stationary. Empty on the battery gauge indicates that there is not enough charge for pure EV operation and the car must run in petrol mode. This equates to something like 30% real battery charge which is what the meter in the rapid charger shows.

 

[user 258]

BUT!! got up to 99.9 mpg and the display reset :!: would you believe, i was watching it intensely,

Hi,
The gx3h will only display upto 99.9mpg as far as I'm aware.
Kind regards,
Mark

 

[phevmike]

Tried one at Cobham services the other day, the other was being used by a Leaf, and it didn't work. Rang the hotline who told me that the GSM signal wasn't working and the system would only work for drivers that had used the Cobham services chargers before.

I had some difficulty with the Ikea Croydon charger too but it managed to work eventually.

 

[jaapv]

I wonder how long this free/cheap charging keeps up. In Holland it lasted exactly one year. Then prices were hiked to make public charging as expensive as petrol... :evil: :evil:

 

[CJ1045]

All the cars will only display up to 99.99MPG. If you want to know what you have done higher than that then change the units to L/100km and then read off the figure then use Google to convert to mpg. One recent trip was 143mpg not including charge cost.

CJ

 

[maby]

I wonder how long this free/cheap charging keeps up. In Holland it lasted exactly one year. Then prices were hiked to make public charging as expensive as petrol... :evil: :evil:

I think it will start here pretty soon - the Source London network has been sold off to a French company who extended all current accounts till the end of this year, but have been tight lipped about how they will present it after that. When you do the sums, it is very difficult to see how they can run it on a commercial basis without pushing the prices up to a point where the economics to the driver are becoming questionable.

P.S. I've just been to the Source London web site and it seems that all new subscriptions now run till the end of September next year - possibly an indication of some significant change in policy for then onwards?

 

[BeeJay]

Just got this mail from Source London:

"In 2011, TfL and the Mayor of London launched Source London, an exciting London wide network of innovative and efficient Electric Vehicle charge points. Since September of this year, we at BluePointLondon have taken over the network's operations.
We would like to thank you for your support and trust that is helping us apply our experience and improve the network that has seen some difficulties.
We are thus very pleased to announce that BluePointLondon Ltd. is continuously improving the scheme by repairing existing chargepoints or replacing obsolete ones.
As a gesture of goodwill and to thank you for your continued trust, we have decided to extend free of charge your membership until September 30th 2015, at which time we believe the work we will have carried out on the network will have a significant impact.
All membership cards will automatically extend until that date.
Please feel free to contact our service agents on 02030568989 for further information and to get assistance if you face any problems using the scheme."

 

[maby]

Just got this mail from Source London:

"In 2011, TfL and the Mayor of London launched Source London, an exciting London wide network of innovative and efficient Electric Vehicle charge points. Since September of this year, we at BluePointLondon have taken over the network's operations.
We would like to thank you for your support and trust that is helping us apply our experience and improve the network that has seen some difficulties.
We are thus very pleased to announce that BluePointLondon Ltd. is continuously improving the scheme by repairing existing chargepoints or replacing obsolete ones.
As a gesture of goodwill and to thank you for your continued trust, we have decided to extend free of charge your membership until September 30th 2015, at which time we believe the work we will have carried out on the network will have a significant impact.
All membership cards will automatically extend until that date.
Please feel free to contact our service agents on 02030568989 for further information and to get assistance if you face any problems using the scheme."

mmmm, no mention of what they will do after that - as always with them...

 

[greendwarf]

mmmm, no mention of what they will do after that - as always with them...

The Networks problem is that they have large capital costs to cover with very little income stream if they start charging. As I understand the Polar/Chargemaster service is funded by the site owners who pay a management charge to Polar. It is then up to the site owner whether they want to charge for the electricity of which the Network takes a further cut - much like Wi-Fi in shops, hotels etc.

So presumably some large firms (e.g. IKEA) will see this as a means of attracting business whereas Local authorities will see it as a public service. Given that the amount of full charge is about £1.50 to £2 are hotels etc. going to want to charge this to people paying well over £100 per night? - probably not.

At least we have the option of voting with our feet pity - those poor Leaf owners :lol:

 

[maby]

mmmm, no mention of what they will do after that - as always with them...

The Networks problem is that they have large capital costs to cover with very little income stream if they start charging. As I understand the Polar/Chargemaster service is funded by the site owners who pay a management charge to Polar. It is then up to the site owner whether they want to charge for the electricity of which the Network takes a further cut - much like Wi-Fi in shops, hotels etc.

So presumably some large firms (e.g. IKEA) will see this as a means of attracting business whereas Local authorities will see it as a public service. Given that the amount of full charge is about £1.50 to £2 are hotels etc. going to want to charge this to people paying well over £100 per night? - probably not.

At least we have the option of voting with our feet pity - those poor Leaf owners :lol:

The difference between an Outlander and a Leaf is that the Outlander cannot cram in enough charge to make any commercial pricing structure worth paying. The charging stations that are run on a commercial basis generally charge (in the monetary sense) by the hour rather than by the quantity of electricity consumed. An Outlander, with its small battery pack, can only take on the equivalent of about half a gallon of petrol - less on a rapid charger that will only go up to 80% battery. That sets an upper value on how much we will be prepared to pay. A Tesla or Leaf could take on the equivalent of two or three gallons of petrol in the same time - that shifts the economics of the equation a lot.

From our point of view, we would like them to charge by the kWh consumed, but that would bring its own problems for the operator. If I were to go into London to work for the day and plug up to a charging point that does not charge by the hour, I would stay on it all day - it's not going to cost me any more, and it would be a real pain to have to leave the office a couple of hours after I arrived in order to move the car. That, however, would mean that I was occupying a bay all day, but only paying a couple of pounds - very bad for business!

 

[greendwarf]

mmmm, no mention of what they will do after that - as always with them...

The Networks problem is that they have large capital costs to cover with very little income stream if they start charging. As I understand the Polar/Chargemaster service is funded by the site owners who pay a management charge to Polar. It is then up to the site owner whether they want to charge for the electricity of which the Network takes a further cut - much like Wi-Fi in shops, hotels etc.

So presumably some large firms (e.g. IKEA) will see this as a means of attracting business whereas Local authorities will see it as a public service. Given that the amount of full charge is about £1.50 to £2 are hotels etc. going to want to charge this to people paying well over £100 per night? - probably not.

At least we have the option of voting with our feet pity - those poor Leaf owners :lol:

The difference between an Outlander and a Leaf is that the Outlander cannot cram in enough charge to make any commercial pricing structure worth paying. The charging stations that are run on a commercial basis generally charge (in the monetary sense) by the hour rather than by the quantity of electricity consumed. An Outlander, with its small battery pack, can only take on the equivalent of about half a gallon of petrol - less on a rapid charger that will only go up to 80% battery. That sets an upper value on how much we will be prepared to pay. A Tesla or Leaf could take on the equivalent of two or three gallons of petrol in the same time - that shifts the economics of the equation a lot.

From our point of view, we would like them to charge by the kWh consumed, but that would bring its own problems for the operator. If I were to go into London to work for the day and plug up to a charging point that does not charge by the hour, I would stay on it all day - it's not going to cost me any more, and it would be a real pain to have to leave the office a couple of hours after I arrived in order to move the car. That, however, would mean that I was occupying a bay all day, but only paying a couple of pounds - very bad for business!

But are there going to be enough Tesla/LEAF owners who MUST recharge to counter the Hybrids who don't to make setting a cost worthwhile?

 

[maby]

..

But are there going to be enough Tesla/LEAF owners who MUST recharge to counter the Hybrids who don't to make setting a cost worthwhile?

If there are not, then I think the charging networks will fall into disrepair and cease to exist. It will never be economical to build a commercially operated charging network for plugin hybrids - we have the option to burn petrol and this limits the monetary value of the electricity that we load - probably to a level that is too low to support a commercial operation. I can't see the current free charging networks lasting long - it is simply too expensive to operate. Various public bodies installed charging points in a fairly disorganised manner to boost their green credentials and made them free to use while virtually nobody was using them. With no income coming in, they are not well maintained - half the Source London network was not useable six months ago.

 

[greendwarf]

..

But are there going to be enough Tesla/LEAF owners who MUST recharge to counter the Hybrids who don't to make setting a cost worthwhile?

If there are not, then I think the charging networks will fall into disrepair and cease to exist. It will never be economical to build a commercially operated charging network for plugin hybrids - we have the option to burn petrol and this limits the monetary value of the electricity that we load - probably to a level that is too low to support a commercial operation. I can't see the current free charging networks lasting long - it is simply too expensive to operate. Various public bodies installed charging points in a fairly disorganised manner to boost their green credentials and made them free to use while virtually nobody was using them. With no income coming in, they are not well maintained - half the Source London network was not useable six months ago.

Hmm - but with more up market hybrids coming to market and the fact that you have to wait while it charges then there are going to be sufficient affluent customers for IKEA & Supermarkets etc. who want those customers through their doors. There will also be an ongoing demand from the same influential users for the motorway network to ensure those remain. However, I agree that it is the Local Authority ones most at risk as they will be more liable to budget cuts - and I've yet to see one of these being used, anyway.

 

[maby]

Hmm - but with more up market hybrids coming to market and the fact that you have to wait while it charges then there are going to be sufficient affluent customers for IKEA & Supermarkets etc. who want those customers through their doors. There will also be an ongoing demand from the same influential users for the motorway network to ensure those remain. However, I agree that it is the Local Authority ones most at risk as they will be more liable to budget cuts - and I've yet to see one of these being used, anyway.

But is a couple of pounds worth of free electricity going to be enough to influence the shopping choices of someone who is able to spend £30k on a car? IKEA has virtually no competition - if you want the sort of thing that they sell, you will go there irrespective of whether or not they offer a free charge. I'm certainly not going to go to Asda in search of a free charge either.

As for the motorway network - I can see no reason why it will remain free and once it is put onto a commercial footing it will cease to be attractive to the owner of a car that does less that 20 miles on a charge at motorway speeds.

 

[greendwarf]

Hmm - but with more up market hybrids coming to market and the fact that you have to wait while it charges then there are going to be sufficient affluent customers for IKEA & Supermarkets etc. who want those customers through their doors. There will also be an ongoing demand from the same influential users for the motorway network to ensure those remain. However, I agree that it is the Local Authority ones most at risk as they will be more liable to budget cuts - and I've yet to see one of these being used, anyway.

But is a couple of pounds worth of free electricity going to be enough to influence the shopping choices of someone who is able to spend £30k on a car? IKEA has virtually no competition - if you want the sort of thing that they sell, you will go there irrespective of whether or not they offer a free charge. I'm certainly not going to go to Asda in search of a free charge either.

As for the motorway network - I can see no reason why it will remain free and once it is put onto a commercial footing it will cease to be attractive to the owner of a car that does less that 20 miles on a charge at motorway speeds.

In my experience, the more affluent people are the more they are attracted by the opportunity of a bargain (perhaps how they got affluent in the first place :?: ). For example at my son's public school (Dulwich College) the second hand clothing sale at the beginning of the term was a huge event for parents and when I had to screen expenses in BT, senior mangers where the most inventive claimants, even for relatively small sums.

So if I'm driving past IKEA at Thurrock, I might well be attracted by the free charge to stop and have a look in the store whilst I'm there and end up buying something I didn't plan to. In retail all outlets are in completion for our disposable income - the trick is to get you in the store in the first place. Certainly if Tesco had a charging station but Sainsbury didn't then I am more likely to go to Tesco for my shopping if I have a choice (which I do in London).

Similarly I might also stop at a motorway service area for a charge and spend money on a coffee etc. (at enormous mark-up) which I wouldn't do otherwise. However, the Gov't specifies what facilities are available (and can dictate price). Hence the influence of all these company car drivers rushing to get hybrids for the tax breaks who will still want to squeeze every penny they can out of the mileage - especially if they can claim it back at petrol rates (see above). And, of course, the Gov't still needs to promote EV initiatives - not least to justify the army of fellow civil servants supporting them.

 

[maby]

You may be right I guess - perhaps it's me that is unusual. I might think differently if I owned a Tesla and could take on the equivalent of quite a few pounds of free petrol or electricity, but I certainly would not change my plans for the equivalent of a couple of litres of petrol. If I were that concerned about costs, I would have bought a Skoda.

 

[greendwarf]

You may be right I guess - perhaps it's me that is unusual. I might think differently if I owned a Tesla and could take on the equivalent of quite a few pounds of free petrol or electricity, but I certainly would not change my plans for the equivalent of a couple of litres of petrol. If I were that concerned about costs, I would have bought a Skoda.

I almost did - either a Yeti (but wife didn't like the handbrake position) or a second hand Superb until I was seduced by the PHEV and my wife offerring to pay the 50% deposit (couldn't turn down a offer like that after 30 years of marriage :lol: )