Flappy Paddle Cynic

[dkdogg]

Hi
I've had a GX3h for about 4 months / 7000 miles now and have a couple of observations to share:

1 - I did an experiment over January where I didn't use my heater at all, and instead wore 2 coats, a blanket over my knees, gloves and a kamikaze hat and scarf. I managed to get a chest infection, but on the plus side I got 100mpg. I'm now doing part 2 of experiment on very similar journeys (30 miles to work, charging at either end) with the heater on (18 degrees). It's looking like I'm going to get maybe 40 - 50mpg if I'm lucky. Massive difference, but will update. I guess the lessons learned are that I am optimistic that I will get much better mpg in warmer months, and I now understand that the impact of using the heater is huge.

2 - I feel that the flappy paddles are a gimmic. Surely having a system that slows you down unless you accelerate is akin in it's stupidity to having a system that speeds you up unless you brake! Each wastes energy in one way or another. Surely you only want to be braking when you need to slow down!? If you do this sensibly and gradually, this should equal minimal lost energy. I'm sure that the energy lost in braking (and having to speed up again) is far more than the energy gained in recharging the battery? I turn the regen braking to level 0 as soon as I set off on a journey. Getting up to speed and coasting is much more efficient, particularly in flat old Lincolnshire!

 

[Lyra252]

Hi
Completely agree about the heater, I used to have a diesel Espace, the heater was useless for about the first 10 miles. For short journeys I set the heater in the PHEV to 15 and just use the demist button to clear the screen, the engine doesn't start.

If you deselect the aircon by pressing the star button till it beeps then auto will not default to aircon, you can select it if you want it. Again no engine.

If you press start with no foot brakle, you can check the heater setting is not high enough to force the engine to start of you don't want it.

The regen braking I feel is good though, irrespective of setting it's controlled through the throttle pedal. If you are slowing down, you may as well use the latent energy to put a little back into the battery, as opposed to heating up the disks and pads.

It should only slow you down if you release the throttle, so the slowing down energy is not wasted, but reclaimed.

Cheers

Chris

PS I live in Scotland so loads of opprtunity to regen downhill!

 

[maby]

I'm pretty sure that Mitsubishi only expected us to use regen braking to control speed down hills. Some owners have latched onto it as part of an ultra-eco style of driving and tried to come up with all sorts of complex strategies - they may or may not work, but the contribution to low energy consumption seems to be minimal.

 

[anko]

If you deselect the aircon by pressing the star button till it beeps then auto will not default to aircon, you can select it if you want it. Again no engine.

Heating can be done in two ways: via the electric heater (if you have one) or via the engine. Air conditioning can only be done in one way: via the electric air conditioner. Conclusion: turning on the air conditioner will not trigger the engine to start as the engine cannot provide an alternative.

 

[anko]

I'm pretty sure that Mitsubishi only expected us to use regen braking to control speed down hills. Some owners have latched onto it as part of an ultra-eco style of driving and tried to come up with all sorts of complex strategies - they may or may not work, but the contribution to low energy consumption seems to be minimal.

I use B5 most of the time on local roads, not because of ECO, but because (95% of the time) it allows me to control my speed with only one pedal. Just a matter of taste.

 

[gazter76]

the sheer amount of fuel used by turning on the heating (gx3h) is breathtaking.

My previous car was a 2l petrol x trail (converted to lpg), got about 20 to 24mpg, whether i had full heat or full air con, or non at all it didnt make much difference to the rate at which the lpg tank clicked over. City driving, motorway driving, full load, empty load. Barely any difference.

I can see that if you have an engine that isnt designed to be efficient, it doesnt scale back and for as necessary.

But on the other hand i had a very efficient diesel 1.6l belingo, again, it didnt seem to matter how it was driven, it would average around 48mpg, sometimes sneaking up to 52mpg, never below 46mpg over a trip. I remember a motorway trip 150 miles, four passengers plus me, boot full of luggage, the trip there was 48mpg, the trip back, empty except for me, again 48mpg, driven at 75mph.

The Outlander is a strange beast. It seems to be trying to annoy. Shouting at you, im going to give you amazing fuel efficiency, as long as you dont want to heat me up, or cool me down, you dont want to drive me over 60mph, you dont want to drive me more than 60 miles, you dont want to have your full beams on.

I went on the motorway today, a ten mile trip, with depleted battery. I reset the average mpg. I had heating off. Drove at 70mph, it got 25.6mpg.

When i turned the heating on last week, i could see it just slurping the fuel.

 

[Hypermiler]

You will def see an improvement in the warmer months.

Agree with you re using B0 - it is my default setting too. Seems to make sense as uses forward momentum in the most efficient manner and without impacting on battery life.

H

 

[tlongdon]

If you deselect the aircon by pressing the star button till it beeps then auto will not default to aircon, you can select it if you want it. Again no engine.

Heating can be done in two ways: via the electric heater (if you have one) or via the engine. Air conditioning can only be done in one way: via the electric air conditioner. Conclusion: turning on the air conditioner will not trigger the engine to start as the engine cannot provide an alternative.

I've not been able to heat the car via the electric heater first thing in the morning. How do you "make it" do this? The air conditioner is switched off but the engine kicks in immediately, and will only turn off if I switch the heater "off".

Thanks

 

[maby]

...

I've not been able to heat the car via the electric heater first thing in the morning. How do you "make it" do this? The air conditioner is switched off but the engine kicks in immediately, and will only turn off if I switch the heater "off".

Thanks

You need to control it remotely using a smart-phone. If the car is plugged up to the mains, it will draw most of the current for heating from there and the impact on your battery charge will be small. You use the electric heater to pre-heat the car while it is plugged in and this will reduce, or eliminate, the need to start the petrol engine to provide heat when you drive off. It will burn petrol if the ambient temperature is below something like 7 degrees and you have the heating turned on, but having the car preheated will significantly reduce the petrol consumption.

 

[anko]

The brain of the car compares:
- inside temp
- outside temp
- requested temp
- temp of electric heater fluid (I think)

If it doesn't like the combinations of values measured, it will start the engine to speed up the heating process. Like it or not.

You will have to pre-heat the car before 'starting' it (READY light on), in order to increase inside temp and / or temp of the heater fluid. Then the brain will not decide to start the engine.

Either use the app to schedule pre-heating or start the heater right then and there. Or schedule pre-heating through MMCS.

 

[greendwarf]

You will def see an improvement in the warmer months.

Agree with you re using B0 - it is my default setting too. Seems to make sense as uses forward momentum in the most efficient manner and without impacting on battery life.

H

+1

 

[jdsx]

The brain of the car compares:
- inside temp
- outside temp
- requested temp
- temp of electric heater fluid (I think)

If it doesn't like the combinations of values measured, it will start the engine to speed up the heating process. Like it or not.

You will have to pre-heat the car before 'starting' it (READY light on), in order to increase inside temp and / or temp of the heater fluid. Then the brain will not decide to start the engine.

Either use the app to schedule pre-heating or start the heater right then and there. Or schedule pre-heating through MMCS.

I agree with anko. With pre-heating (20 minutes, occasionally more :lol: ), I have managed not to use ICE for heating in temperatures of -4degC. You need to keep the inside 'requested temp' down low to begin with though

 

[anko]

I agree with anko. With pre-heating (20 minutes, occasionally more :lol: ), I have managed not to use ICE for heating in temperatures of -4degC. You need to keep the inside 'requested temp' down low to begin with though

Thanks

Sense a but coming? Here it comes.

I believe that if you have preheated only enough to preheat the heater itself, than indeed you must start at a low temp and gradually increase the temp setting, closely watching the energy flow to the heater. Do not up the temp setting if energy flow is high.

If you have preheated long enough for the cabin to warm up, then you must set temperature high from the start. If you don't, the heater gets a chance to cool off and by the time it is needed again, the brain will decide it is too cold and fire up the engine.

 

[1Engine]

I cannot comment on the heater as living in Port Douglas Qld, Aus, we get a min of 15 deg C & at the moment the temp varies between 25 deg C & 36 deg C
:lol:

On the regen braking, I use a lot of between B3 & B5 for control of speed going downhill.
I have found that the A/C used a lot more power once the temp is over 34 deg C

 

[rtw]

2 - I feel that the flappy paddles are a gimmic. Surely having a system that slows you down unless you accelerate is akin in it's stupidity to having a system that speeds you up unless you brake! Each wastes energy in one way or another. Surely you only want to be braking when you need to slow down!? If you do this sensibly and gradually, this should equal minimal lost energy. I'm sure that the energy lost in braking (and having to speed up again) is far more than the energy gained in recharging the battery? I turn the regen braking to level 0 as soon as I set off on a journey. Getting up to speed and coasting is much more efficient, particularly in flat old Lincolnshire!

Like Anko, I've settled on engaging B5 most of the time which then means I can use the accelerator pedal to accelerate, brake and coast. It does take a little time to get used to positioning the pedal correctly, but it's just a matter of muscle memory training. I find doing things this way around is the easiest way to use the full range of regen braking and means I only use the brake pedal for the last few meters before a stop or if there's a car behind.

I think it was Kim who said in another thread, if you're going to slow down anyway, for junctions, corners, traffic, etc., it makes sense to put some of the kinetic energy back into the battery rather than wasting it heating up the brake discs. And there's another small side effect, the brake pads will last longer.

 

[kljasdfbkjaaalke]

I agree with anko. With pre-heating (20 minutes, occasionally more :lol: ), I have managed not to use ICE for heating in temperatures of -4degC. You need to keep the inside 'requested temp' down low to begin with though

Thanks

Sense a but coming? Here it comes.

I believe that if you have preheated only enough to preheat the heater itself, than indeed you must start at a low temp and gradually increase the temp setting, closely watching the energy flow to the heater. Do not up the temp setting if energy flow is high.

If you have preheated long enough for the cabin to warm up, then you must set temperature high from the start. If you don't, the heater gets a chance to cool off and by the time it is needed again, the brain will decide it is too cold and fire up the engine.

I recognize this. Preheated for 20' and started with temp set to 18c. No ICE. Outside temp was 0c.
On another ocassion preheated for 20' and started with temp 15c. No ICE. But after 10 mins of driving I up'ed the temp to 16c and the ICE kicked in.
A friggin science to drive this car on EV only.

 

[jdsx]

Sense a but coming? Here it comes.

I believe that if you have preheated only enough to preheat the heater itself, than indeed you must start at a low temp and gradually increase the temp setting, closely watching the energy flow to the heater. Do not up the temp setting if energy flow is high.

If you have preheated long enough for the cabin to warm up, then you must set temperature high from the start. If you don't, the heater gets a chance to cool off and by the time it is needed again, the brain will decide it is too cold and fire up the engine.

I recognize this. Preheated for 20' and started with temp set to 18c. No ICE. Outside temp was 0c.
On another ocassion preheated for 20' and started with temp 15c. No ICE. But after 10 mins of driving I up'ed the temp to 16c and the ICE kicked in.
A friggin science to drive this car on EV only.

Thanks guys - that's why I love this forum - you learn so much!

 

[gazter76]

2 - I feel that the flappy paddles are a gimmic. Surely having a system that slows you down unless you accelerate is akin in it's stupidity to having a system that speeds you up unless you brake! Each wastes energy in one way or another. Surely you only want to be braking when you need to slow down!? If you do this sensibly and gradually, this should equal minimal lost energy. I'm sure that the energy lost in braking (and having to speed up again) is far more than the energy gained in recharging the battery? I turn the regen braking to level 0 as soon as I set off on a journey. Getting up to speed and coasting is much more efficient, particularly in flat old Lincolnshire!

Like Anko, I've settled on engaging B5 most of the time which then means I can use the accelerator pedal to accelerate, brake and coast. It does take a little time to get used to positioning the pedal correctly, but it's just a matter of muscle memory training. I find doing things this way around is the easiest way to use the full range of regen braking and means I only use the brake pedal for the last few meters before a stop or if there's a car behind.

I think it was Kim who said in another thread, if you're going to slow down anyway, for junctions, corners, traffic, etc., it makes sense to put some of the kinetic energy back into the battery rather than wasting it heating up the brake discs. And there's another small side effect, the brake pads will last longer.

I agree, its just like fine clutch control.

 

[maby]

2 - I feel that the flappy paddles are a gimmic. Surely having a system that slows you down unless you accelerate is akin in it's stupidity to having a system that speeds you up unless you brake! Each wastes energy in one way or another. Surely you only want to be braking when you need to slow down!? If you do this sensibly and gradually, this should equal minimal lost energy. I'm sure that the energy lost in braking (and having to speed up again) is far more than the energy gained in recharging the battery? I turn the regen braking to level 0 as soon as I set off on a journey. Getting up to speed and coasting is much more efficient, particularly in flat old Lincolnshire!

Like Anko, I've settled on engaging B5 most of the time which then means I can use the accelerator pedal to accelerate, brake and coast. It does take a little time to get used to positioning the pedal correctly, but it's just a matter of muscle memory training. I find doing things this way around is the easiest way to use the full range of regen braking and means I only use the brake pedal for the last few meters before a stop or if there's a car behind.

I think it was Kim who said in another thread, if you're going to slow down anyway, for junctions, corners, traffic, etc., it makes sense to put some of the kinetic energy back into the battery rather than wasting it heating up the brake discs. And there's another small side effect, the brake pads will last longer.

I don't think that the paddles do anything that you can't achieve with the brake pedal, but they do give you finer control. The first inch or so of pedal depression applies regen braking before there is any significant friction brake applied.

 

[rtw]

I don't think that the paddles do anything that you can't achieve with the brake pedal, but they do give you finer control. The first inch or so of pedal depression applies regen braking before there is any significant friction brake applied.

Very true, but setting to B5 gives the full range of regen, plus ability to coast, plus acceleration, all on the same pedal. It's subjective, but for me personally, it's the most comfortable way to manage speed.

The good thing this thread highlights is the car's ability to be flexible. You have the paddles, the gear changer, and the pedals all able to control regen and therefore the driver can set things up to suit their driving preference.