Generator output in relation to drive battery levels.

[Trex]

Ok just did a quick test this morning. It was on the same test section I did this test.

Hi folks,

This will be the last test I will do for awhile. I hope it helps everyone.

I picked the flattest area around here ( and it is very flat across the river valley here) on the dual lane freeway (in each direction) that runs past our small city. It is made up of approx. 12kms of 100kph zone and 10km of 110kph zone. I picked that stretch for its easy turn around at each end as well as being flat.

So the test consisted of driving in one direction then the other followed by a quick turnaround at each end. Traffic was light. I sat on 105kph . I used cruise control the whole time except at each end when I was turning around.

Now this is the same as I did the other night but more scientifically ie I ran both directions fully before taking measurements to allow for any wind or elevation changes. I have not, I repeat not done that before.

Here are the results.

Press save button straight at start with full battery. 15 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 15kw

Press Save at 13 bars. 14 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.8L/100k Petrol motor never stopped. B5 25kw

Press Save at 11 bars. 12 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times B5 37kw

Press Save at 8 bars. 9 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 7 bars. 8 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 6 bars. 7 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.4L/100k Petrol motor stopped a couple of times. B5 37kw

Press Save at 4 bars. 5 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

At 1 bars (normal mode). 1 bars showing (out 16 ) on MMCS when finished test. 7.2L/100k Petrol motor stopped like a proper hybrid. B5 37kw

Note No AC or heater on.

Note The B5 amounts are Regen that I could get at the end of the runs with the paddles set to B5 when turning around.

Note Where I said the petrol motor never stopped it only stopped at each end of the run where I turned around.

Note Where the Petrol motor stopped I read it at the same point of the hybrid cycle.

Note I could not do this test more scientifically without putting it on a dyno.

Note I have just lost 6 hrs out of my life.

Note There are no more Notes. :lol:

Regards Trex.

Well I do not think some people around here believe these figures, I will not mention any names , so I thought about how to back them up.

Well now we have EVBatmon (Thanks guys) we have some more tools I wish I had when I did that previous test.

Now anko may have shown some graph that shows this somewhere around here and if he does this backs that up.

So back out on the highway I went and got these results.

15 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 6.1 kW approx. on EVBatmon. Pressed save right at the start for this one.
14 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 7.7 kW approx. on EVBatmon.
13 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 8.1 kW approx. on EVBatmon.
12 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 9.6 kW approx. on EVBatmon.
10 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 10.8 kW approx. on EVBatmon.
8 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 14.0 kW approx. on EVBatmon.
6 bars (out of 16) showing on the MMCS battery gauge Generator Power 16.9 kW approx. on EVBatmon.

Now I stopped there as my wife wanted the car soon and I wanted to leave her some battery showing her I am such a nice guy.

Anyhow, I think, it shows that the car is more efficient with a lower battery SOC just like my previous test.

Regards Trex.

ps added 15 out 16 bars ie pressed save at the start of turning on the PHEV.

 

[Trex]

Now I should state here those Generator figures are moving up and down regularly as you drive up and down small rises. So it is not showing that the PHEV will be more than twice as efficient as the battery SOC drops. As the fuel figures show that does not happen. I think some of the generator power would be going straight to the Ev drive motors of course.

But I tried as hard as I could to take readings when the road was as flat as possible on the same section of the highway.

 

[anko]

Hi Trex,

Good stuff! Your trend is so consistent, IMHO it cannot be related to local road / driving conditions. Did you really use a PID for Generator Power or was it for Battery In? I am always looking at the latter, but the former should indeed be available too. And takes away the effect of a running A/Christian or heater (I know, it is summer time down under :mrgreen: )

 

[Trex]

Hi Trex,

Good stuff! Your trend is so consistent, IMHO it cannot be related to local road / driving conditions. Did you really use a PID for Generator Power or was it for Battery In? I am always looking at the latter, but the former should indeed be available too. And takes away the effect of a running A/Christian or heater (I know, it is summer time down under :mrgreen: )

Hi anko

It was gen PID . Would go to 0 when petrol motor stops on hybrid cycle. It has a minus sign when charging.

As before the petrol motor hardly stops on first few tests.

No A/C used. Was fairly early.

 

[maby]

Ok just did a quick test this morning. It was on the same test section I did this test.

...
Well I do not think some people around here believe these figures, I will not mention any names , so I thought about how to back them up.

...

Regards Trex.

You are very welcome to mention my name since we have discussed this in the past! I'm quite prepared to believe that there is a significant difference in generator output against SOC - the question is what effect this has on fuel economy. Your previous test showed a difference of less than 10% and when I ran similar tests in urban road conditions, I could not detect any repeatable difference.

 

[anko]

OK. Next test would be to map soc, gen out and instantaneous fuel consumption in a single graph. I know I can do that. If only I had that piece of road Trex has ...

 

[maby]

OK. Next test would be to map soc, gen out and instantaneous fuel consumption in a single graph. I know I can do that. If only I had that piece of road Trex has ...

I really don't think that gen out is significant in the graph - it will just complicate the presentation. We are variously interested in either fuel consumption or CO2 emissions. Trex's figures indicate that the link between gen out and fuel consumption is not strong - he showed a ratio of more than 2:1 on generator output with a corresponding ratio of fuel consumption of less than 10%.

 

[Esparza]

The engine at partial load has lower volumetric efficiency than in high load situation, so generator braking the engine will increase fuel efficiency thats for sure. And my experience is the same as Trex, lower SOC better fuel economy.

 

[Trex]

Ok just did a quick test this morning. It was on the same test section I did this test.

...
Well I do not think some people around here believe these figures, I will not mention any names , so I thought about how to back them up.

...

Regards Trex.

You are very welcome to mention my name since we have discussed this in the past! I'm quite prepared to believe that there is a significant difference in generator output against SOC - the question is what effect this has on fuel economy. Your previous test showed a difference of less than 10% and when I ran similar tests in urban road conditions, I could not detect any repeatable difference.

Sorry Maby,

I was thinking of some others here. Forgot about you. Will not do it again. :mrgreen:

Will try to help you and others in the other post about what I have learned so you can detect those differences.

 

[anko]

OK. Next test would be to map soc, gen out and instantaneous fuel consumption in a single graph. I know I can do that. If only I had that piece of road Trex has ...

I really don't think that gen out is significant in the graph - it will just complicate the presentation. We are variously interested in either fuel consumption or CO2 emissions. Trex's figures indicate that the link between gen out and fuel consumption is not strong - he showed a ratio of more than 2:1 on generator output with a corresponding ratio of fuel consumption of less than 10%.

It is mechanical power to the wheels + gen out that needs to be compared to fuel consumption. Not just gen out. We don't know power to the wheels so we can't do that. All we can do is see how much electricity is generated at what cost. And we roughly know how far that electricity may take us ....

 

[Trex]

OK. Next test would be to map soc, gen out and instantaneous fuel consumption in a single graph. I know I can do that. If only I had that piece of road Trex has ...

Hi anko,

So can you run this test after everything I said here in that first post of this topic.

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2975

Go on. I know you can do it too.

You do not need "my road" IMO.

 

[Trex]

he showed a ratio of more than 2:1 on generator output with a corresponding ratio of fuel consumption of less than 10%.

But you forget I have said that the petrol motor never stops running in my tests when the PHEV has a fairly full battery SOC.
So where is all those kWs going? Not to the A/C. Turned off on test. Very little to the battery I pressed save and it is very flat where I do the tests.

IMO they are going to the drive motors to take the resistance out of them. That resistance needs to be subtracted from my Generator tests to work out, roughly, the generator output going to battery.

 

[Trex]

We don''t know power to the wheels so we can'talk do that. .

Did you solve this one? I may have some ideas to try.http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1824