MPG Display

[Pickygit]

Anyone know where/if I can find an accurate MPG figure displayed after the' auto' Trip display has exceeded 99.9mpg?

I find the history graphs less than useful owing to the scale used.

I can do it manually as per previous I.C.E. cars but thought Mitsubishi would at least fit a three integer display on the trip.

 

[gwatpe]

The display of mpg has been a problem for years now. Maybe MMC don't think it is that important for most drivers. The history graphs are not telling a true story. I find there only seems to be 1 record for each time the car is powered ON. The graph tells a poor story with a combination of short and long trips. Combined with the recording of null data when the car is in accessory mode, makes it more difficult.

 

[NAPpy]

I suppose you could change the units to L/100km and then do the conversion to MPG yourself.

 

[gwatpe]

Back in the mid 70's, I had a CompuCruise system. What a fantastic unit. mpg, L/100km, instant and also average for trip. For a preset distance to next destination. time to arrive, distance to arrive, fuel to arrive. For the remaining petrol in the tank, Litres to empty, distance to empty, time to empty, and average mpg, average speed, and more I have forgotten. Where have to manufacturers lost the plot in providing really useful driving info now. Surely any patent has now elapsed, or were the engineers smarter back in the 70's.

The MMCS could be so much more, but sadly we have a glorified media radio with a reversing camera.

BTW: the CompuCruise allowed the driver to adapt a driving style and see the effect on economy, or travel times, or range to a destination, or till petrol was empty. No excuses for running out of petrol. The numbers calculated were based on actual fuel remaining and actual present fuel consumption and not how you drove the car last time.

 

[maby]

Really, when you get up to these very high MPG figures, you are only achieving it by consuming a significant amount of electricity instead - they need to offer a more complete solution which allows you to key in the cost of electricity relative to petrol and calculates an effective MPG figure. There are people here achieving close to infinite MPG in raw terms, but that is very misleading.

 

[pheverish]

Anyone know where/if I can find an accurate MPG figure displayed after the' auto' Trip display has exceeded 99.9mpg?

I find the history graphs less than useful owing to the scale used.

I can do it manually as per previous I.C.E. cars but thought Mitsubishi would at least fit a three integer display on the trip.

Change the system units to metric L/100km and then back to mpg.
The trip screen will now have a snap shot of your mpg - but it won't continue to calculate it dynamically

 

[anko]

they need to offer a more complete solution which allows you to key in the cost of electricity relative to petrol and calculates an effective MPG figure.

In terms of what? kWh? Money? CO2 exhaust? With so many different opinions, they will never get it right. Although I agree, it could be better.

There are people here achieving close to infinite MPG in raw terms, but that is very misleading.

After all the discussions we've had, I think we all know what the number means. The number by itself is not misleading. It is interpretations that can be misleading. I, for one, was very much concerned with reducing the amount of fossil fuel consumed directly by my car. For this, the number is perfectly valid

Had they presented CO2 exhaust, money burned or kWh consumed per km or mile and ignored electricity while doing so, then the number itself would be misleading.

 

[maby]

The danger is in assuming that electricity is effectively zero carbon footprint. EDF are quite proud that they have got their carbon footprint down to around 450g/kWh - when you run those figures through an Outlander PHEV, it is not that much environmentally better than the Outlander diesel even if you never burn any petrol. At those figures, even a Nissan Leaf is not a lot better for the environment than a compact petrol car.

 

[anko]

I was expecting some sort of response like that and I tried to stay ahead of it by writing:

... concerned with reducing the amount of fossil fuel consumed directly by my car.

But instead of acknowledging that the car helps me addressing my concerns, you now debate the relevance of my concern

About my concern: At the moment it may seem to you that focussing on reducing MPG does not bring much. But at some point in time we will get better at generating electricity with little environmental impact and then I'll be ready, because I managed to reduce my MPG. And my car helped me doing so by showing me where I stand with that. Let's face it, based on what you write, why would we invest in charging infrastructure and such?

Bottom line: give people some credit and allow them to think for themselves .... instead of their cars

 

[maby]

I was expecting some sort of response like that and I tried to stay ahead of it by writing:

... concerned with reducing the amount of fossil fuel consumed directly by my car.

But instead of acknowledging that the car helps me addressing my concerns, you now debate the relevance of my concern

About my concern: At the moment it may seem to you that focussing on reducing MPG does not bring much. But at some point in time we will get better at generating electricity with little environmental impact and then I'll be ready, because I managed to reduce my MPG. And my car helped me doing so by showing me where I stand with that. Let's face it, based on what you write, why would we invest in charging infrastructure and such?

Bottom line: give people some credit and allow them to think for themselves .... instead of their cars

I didn't quote you in my response - I was commenting on the increasingly meaningless nature of MPG displays that only take into account petrol burned as the balance of usage moves towards pure EV. By definition, a LEAF does infinite MPG measured in the same way that a PHEV calculates it - does that mean that it has zero environmental impact? Of course not... I just did the calculations and its actual performance is not much better than the Suzuki Alto that my son used to run. Yes, technology changes and the sums may work out very differently in the future, but we are not discussing how things will be in twenty, thirty, forty years.

 

[anko]

Like I did not quote you in my response. But still it felt like I did, didn't it ....

Okay, enough fooling around for one day ....

 

[jaapv]

I was expecting some sort of response like that and I tried to stay ahead of it by writing:

... concerned with reducing the amount of fossil fuel consumed directly by my car.

I just did the calculations and its actual performance is not much better than the Suzuki Alto that my son used to run. Yes, technology changes and the sums may work out very differently in the future, but we are not discussing how things will be in twenty, thirty, forty years.

How did you calculate? I get my electricity by using solar panels and having part-invested in a wind turbine - I find it hard to factor the environmental costs of the construction into any calculation, the sum for running coming to zero (as long as I run on solely electricity, which I do for the majority of my trips.)
I do not rate the driving experience as quite equal to an Alto, BTW...

 

[PeterGalbavy]

Setting aside "renewables" as a source of electricity for moment we also have to factor in the efficiencies of centralising generating capacity where it is based on fossil fuels and also the benefits of lowering pollution in urban areas.

There are also stats out there that talk about how much electricity goes into the refining process for petrol / diesel which makes an Infernal (sic) combustion engine double bad. I think it's something stupid like 6kWh per US gallon (http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline).

 

[maby]

...

How did you calculate? I get my electricity by using solar panels and having part-invested in a wind turbine - I find it hard to factor the environmental costs of the construction into any calculation, the sum for running coming to zero (as long as I run on solely electricity, which I do for the majority of my trips.)
I do not rate the driving experience as quite equal to an Alto, BTW...

I was comparing the Alto with the Leaf, you know, not the PHEV!

I calculated on the basis that the major power generators seem to put their carbon footprint between 400 g/kWh and 500 g/kWh. The PHEV draws around 10 kWh per charge producing (on EDF figures) 4,800 g CO2. If you achieve the headline figure of 32 miles on a charge, then you are running at 95 g/km CO2. If you get the figure of 22 miles per charge that seems more reasonable in mixed mode driving, then you are putting out 138 g/km. An Outlander diesel claims to be able to get along at 140 g/km - ok - reality is probably not that good, but the fact remains that the PHEV is not vastly better ecologically than the diesel.

The Leaf has a 30 kWh battery and claims (probably optimistically) to be able to do 140 miles on it - that comes out at 65 g/km - not a lot better than many petrol compacts.

I don't think that having your own solar panels and windmill is particularly relevant unless you are completely isolated from the grid. We do not have 100% renewable capacity - not by a long measure - so the 10kWh you pump into your car is just 10kWh less that you can pump back into the grid and hence 10kWh more that will be generated elsewhere by burning something. Every km that you drive in your PHEV is responsible for an additional 90-odd grammes of CO2 going into the atmosphere.

 

[maby]

Setting aside "renewables" as a source of electricity for moment we also have to factor in the efficiencies of centralising generating capacity where it is based on fossil fuels and also the benefits of lowering pollution in urban areas.

There are also stats out there that talk about how much electricity goes into the refining process for petrol / diesel which makes an Infernal (sic) combustion engine double bad. I think it's something stupid like 6kWh per US gallon (http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline).

Quite true - I'm not denying that the PHEV has environmental benefits, just warning against assessing them on very simplistic measures. Given that all Outlanders are manufactured in Japan and shipped round here on horrendously polluting cargo ships, I am reasonably confident that most of us in Europe would be doing less damage to the environment by driving Range Rovers manufactured in Britain!

 

[jaapv]

...

How did you calculate? I get my electricity by using solar panels and having part-invested in a wind turbine - I find it hard to factor the environmental costs of the construction into any calculation, the sum for running coming to zero (as long as I run on solely electricity, which I do for the majority of my trips.)
I do not rate the driving experience as quite equal to an Alto, BTW...

I was comparing the Alto with the Leaf, you know, not the PHEV!

I calculated on the basis that the major power generators seem to put their carbon footprint between 400 g/kWh and 500 g/kWh. The PHEV draws around 10 kWh per charge producing (on EDF figures) 4,800 g CO2. If you achieve the headline figure of 32 miles on a charge, then you are running at 95 g/km CO2. If you get the figure of 22 miles per charge that seems more reasonable in mixed mode driving, then you are putting out 138 g/km. An Outlander diesel claims to be able to get along at 140 g/km - ok - reality is probably not that good, but the fact remains that the PHEV is not vastly better ecologically than the diesel.

The Leaf has a 30 kWh battery and claims (probably optimistically) to be able to do 140 miles on it - that comes out at 65 g/km - not a lot better than many petrol compacts.

I don't think that having your own solar panels and windmill is particularly relevant unless you are completely isolated from the grid. We do not have 100% renewable capacity - not by a long measure - so the 10kWh you pump into your car is just 10kWh less that you can pump back into the grid and hence 10kWh more that will be generated elsewhere by burning something. Every km that you drive in your PHEV is responsible for an additional 90-odd grammes of CO2 going into the atmosphere.

Germany puts their renewable energy percentage on the Internet. On a sunny windy day it can reach 100%, and I like to think our country is not too far behind. Anyway, if I am consuming the amount generated by my renewable sources, it is not particularly relevant what the rest of the grid is doing - I am taking nothing.

 

[Pickygit]

Bloody hell guys! I only asked how I could find MPG displayed in excess of 99.9mpg - (but interesting reading nonetheless)

 

[jaapv]

Don't worry, Maby and I lock horns on this subject regularly - sorry it spilt over into your thread.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[maby]

Don't worry, Maby and I lock horns on this subject regularly - sorry it spilt over into your thread.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

:twisted:

And, equally, don't get too worked up about it not being able to display more than 99.9mpg - when it says "__._" just read it as "I'm doing well" - if it said "259.3" it would be fibbing!

 

[anko]

if it said "259.3" it would be fibbing!

No, it would not .... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: