Steamed Up (The car AND ME!) NO LONGER!!

[Claymore]

Anko, I'm wrong about lots of things, probably including that. Fortunately I've arrived at an age where that doesn't matter.

Anyhoo, I'm getting a lot happier (and warmer, now with air circulation system even though Mitsu seem to have based its logic circuits on HAL, the computer in 2001 a Space Odyssey).

Driver - 'CAR, demist the windows and warm me up without starting the engine', CAR - 'I can't do that Dave'.

Back to reality....I've disabled automatic air conditioning control. Operation of the aircon is the primary culprit in firing up the ICE but now I can sit in the car with the heater on 21 without the engine starting. Yes there is a (surprisingly small, especially if wired preheat is used) penalty for maintaining the temperature as the electric heater is used but for most local journeys that doesn't matter much or at all especially if you take your scuba gear for breathing and keep the air source on 'recirculate'.

I can keep the windows clear using manual controls for the source, direction and flow rate of air without the aircon and the engine starting.

HAL retains authority to start the aircon and the engine should I dare to touch the 'Demist' button and that right cannot be taken away.

The air source automatic selection can also be disabled but don't yet see a need for that and of course HAL retains authority to override your command decision in a whole host of circumstances on that too for the protection of the mission.

All of this is of course in the manual but there are so many additional notes, addendums and caveats that trying to figure it out is a bit like that old trick of trying figure out which cup the pea is under from one of those old western movies.

My 2 sacks of dehumidifier (cat litter) still haven't arrived and now I may not need them

JimB

 

[Carnut]

53f this morning NO FOG!!!(inside) BUT! I also did not charge it last evening so I wonder if charging cause it to fog up or was it the warmer temperature?????
As an aside.......I drove across Bournemouth to Christchurch and back this morning.Probably about 25 mile round trip.
I decided to go there and back on 'SAVE' to see what affect it had.
I ended up with a trip MPG of 35.1. (about the same as the Yeti, so not bad for such a tank) BUT.............I set off with 20miles showing on the battery and when I got home it had sunk to 15, and had been as low as 13miles.
So the 'SAVE' doesn't seem to work either! Or am I missing something.
I am aware that on SAVE the voltage does fluctuate but as I was told, only by about 2miles. SO my results, once again, are not acceptable.
The time to go back to burning fossil fuels alone is getting ever closer.
But what to do.
Biscuit tin Outlander diesel, ASX, Honda HR-v oh dear decisions decisions. Whatever I do, I stand to lose about £7K in 2 months, so one is NOT A HAPPY BUNNY!

 

[Claymore]

Presumably when you got to Christchurch you stopped.

Did you remember to reselect 'Save' when you restarted?

Stupid question I know but don't ask me why I thought of asking.



JimB

 

[maby]

53f this morning NO FOG!!!(inside) BUT! I also did not charge it last evening so I wonder if charging cause it to fog up or was it the warmer temperature?????
As an aside.......I drove across Bournemouth to Christchurch and back this morning.Probably about 25 mile round trip.
I decided to go there and back on 'SAVE' to see what affect it had.
I ended up with a trip MPG of 35.1. (about the same as the Yeti, so not bad for such a tank) BUT.............I set off with 20miles showing on the battery and when I got home it had sunk to 15, and had been as low as 13miles.
So the 'SAVE' doesn't seem to work either! Or am I missing something.
I am aware that on SAVE the voltage does fluctuate but as I was told, only by about 2miles. SO my results, once again, are not acceptable.
The time to go back to burning fossil fuels alone is getting ever closer.
But what to do.
Biscuit tin Outlander diesel, ASX, Honda HR-v oh dear decisions decisions. Whatever I do, I stand to lose about £7K in 2 months, so one is NOT A HAPPY BUNNY!

"Save" does allow the charge level to drift down - there are two reasons for this. Firstly, the generator is not really able to bring the battery up to 100% charge - the charge current drops off as the battery gets close to 100% and the last bar on the scale takes for ever. Secondly, the target level for Save is set to whatever the battery was at when the button was pressed. As you say, the control system does allow the charge level to wander up and down a bit - the hysteresis cycle - and if you stop the car when it is below the original Save point, that charge level will become the new Save point when you start up again and immediately hit Save. My normal pattern of usage is to be away from home and any possibility of charging three or four days each week. I leave the house with a full charge and run on Save all the time till I'm getting close to back home - generally I will still have about two-thirds charge as I get home.

As far as changing the car is concerned, you really need to think carefully before doing so. As I said in another thread here, I probably would not buy another now that the various tax incentives are becoming eroded, but if you stop fiddling with the PHEV and simply start driving it, it should be warm and comfortable and its performance should be close to that of the other cars you mention. The fuel economy on long trips may not be quite as good as an Outlander diesel, for example, but it would take a long time to recoup the loss you would make selling it so soon. Just drive it as if it was an Outlander diesel.

 

[user 816]

53f this morning NO FOG!!!(inside) BUT! I also did not charge it last evening so I wonder if charging cause it to fog up or was it the warmer temperature?????
As an aside.......I drove across Bournemouth to Christchurch and back this morning.Probably about 25 mile round trip.
I decided to go there and back on 'SAVE' to see what affect it had.
I ended up with a trip MPG of 35.1. (about the same as the Yeti, so not bad for such a tank) BUT.............I set off with 20miles showing on the battery and when I got home it had sunk to 15, and had been as low as 13miles.
So the 'SAVE' doesn't seem to work either! Or am I missing something.
I am aware that on SAVE the voltage does fluctuate but as I was told, only by about 2miles. SO my results, once again, are not acceptable.
The time to go back to burning fossil fuels alone is getting ever closer.
But what to do.
Biscuit tin Outlander diesel, ASX, Honda HR-v oh dear decisions decisions. Whatever I do, I stand to lose about £7K in 2 months, so one is NOT A HAPPY BUNNY!

The battery range is only a guess by the computer, it can't possibly know ahead of time how hard you will drive or the type of roads or how fast. The initial 20 was its best guess based on an average of your recent trips. The 13 was probably where you were going quicker for a while (so if it was running on battery it would have used up quicker to go fast so show less range), then the 15 on getting home was how far the battery would get you if you kept going on the sort of journey you just did.

 

[greendwarf]

53f this morning NO FOG!!!(inside) BUT! I also did not charge it last evening so I wonder if charging cause it to fog up or was it the warmer temperature?????
As an aside.......I drove across Bournemouth to Christchurch and back this morning.Probably about 25 mile round trip.
I decided to go there and back on 'SAVE' to see what affect it had.
I ended up with a trip MPG of 35.1. (about the same as the Yeti, so not bad for such a tank) BUT.............I set off with 20miles showing on the battery and when I got home it had sunk to 15, and had been as low as 13miles.
So the 'SAVE' doesn't seem to work either! Or am I missing something.
I am aware that on SAVE the voltage does fluctuate but as I was told, only by about 2miles. SO my results, once again, are not acceptable.
The time to go back to burning fossil fuels alone is getting ever closer.
But what to do.
Biscuit tin Outlander diesel, ASX, Honda HR-v oh dear decisions decisions. Whatever I do, I stand to lose about £7K in 2 months, so one is NOT A HAPPY BUNNY!

The battery range is only a guess by the computer, it can't possibly know ahead of time how hard you will drive or the type of roads or how fast. The initial 20 was its best guess based on an average of your recent trips. The 13 was probably where you were going quicker for a while (so if it was running on battery it would have used up quicker to go fast so show less range), then the 15 on getting home was how far the battery would get you if you kept going on the sort of journey you just did.

And when in Save there will be times when car is not using the ICE but running on EV (unless the whole journey is at high speed) so arguably the computer is also using those periods to re-compute range. The important thing is whether the battery level was maintained - which is what you wanted, not the range. AND what actual mileage do you get tomorrow, 20 or 15?

Alternatively, did you use any electrical equipment during the journeys - e.g. switch on A/C, even briefly, and range is cut in half!

 

[gwatpe]

Presumably when you got to Christchurch you stopped.

Did you remember to reselect 'Save' when you restarted?

Stupid question I know but don't ask me why I thought of asking.



JimB

My sticky SAVE mod overcomes the "remember to press a button on POWER ON" problem.

I do find that generally, maintaining the SAVE mode operation changes the guesstimeter calc to increase the battery calculated range. Aggressive driving styles have a negative affect on the range as expected.

When we are newbies, it takes some time to work out driving strategies. I remember I picked up my first PHEV in the middle of winter, and there were complaints from the passenger seat from the cold. Heating the seats helped, as did adjustment of the cabin climate settings. I expected the ICE to be used as the PHEV is a hybrid car. I had some reservations with the windscreen demister at first and the time to demist with 4 adults in the cabin was a tad longer than I expected. MAX fan speed with aircon helped out. We often forget the impact the AC has on the guesstimeter. It is possible that we see a number with aircon OFF and compare this later with aircon ON. I have seen the range drop over 10km on occasion when the aircon was turned ON. [about 20%]

There are some lemons that come off the production lines and get through quality controls. MMC only seem to get involved with safety or battery systems problems. I had both in my first PHEV and the matter was resolved with a vehicle replacement.

I doubt that how well the demister works in comparison to other vehicles will draw much attention from MMC.

 

[Carnut]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

 

[Claymore]

My sticky SAVE mod overcomes the "remember to press a button on POWER ON" problem.

I've searched here and the manuals for that but haven't found it yet.

JimB

 

[Carnut]

Gwatpe,
Pleas give link to your 'save mod' as search facility won't recognise word 'save' as too common.
Thanks.
I have also searched manual but after delving, only found the usual gobbledy-gook.

 

[Claymore]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

No need to shout old boy

When I've used save (admittedly usually when down to 4/5 miles left so I can creep back into the street and impress any curtain twitchers) it usually retains within one mile of the requested save range but does fluctuate a little bit, often maintaining (or at least claiming) slightly higher level than the 'saved' amount.

Anyway back to the main thread subject matter...it seems that on the journeys I've had since I started messing around with settings in the heating / ventilation system ( ) that if the ICE starts it only runs for about a minute or so unless 'demist' is constantly on but that function is so effective that it isn't required for much more than a minute anyway.

In fact it runs for so short a length of time if I start the car with the heater set to 21 that I really can't understand what purpose is served by it starting.

Anyway, to cut a long story short I've surrendered to HAL and handed full control back as the advantages of doing so appear to far outweigh any disadvantages.

JimB

 

[Carnut]

"I'm sorry Dave I can't allow you to do that!"

 

[gwatpe]

My sticky SAVE mod overcomes the "remember to press a button on POWER ON" problem.

I've searched her and the manuals for that but haven't found it yet.

JimB

Gwatpe,
Pleas give link to your 'save mod' as search facility won't recognise word 'save' as too common.
Thanks.
I have also searched manual but after delving, only found the usual gobbledy-gook.

Here is the thread. Not too hard to find with the search tool.

http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1399

As you will see, my driving needs do not suit the NORMAL "Flatten Battery First mode". My solution was a little piece of hardware that connects to the CHARGE and SAVE buttons. This is not any MMC sanctioned equipment, but as the unit is powered only from the switch wiring, and the ECU itself, there is no danger of causing any problems to car operations. All the cct does is give the driver control over the mode, the PHEV powers up in. The factory supplied PHEV was unable to give a workable solution to avoid a depleted battery with multiple stops on a journey, where It was important to have some remaining battery for city EV driving, as well as a steep hill climb on the journey home. A friend had similar problems towing a caravan, after accidentally depleting the battery and the struggle to replace battery capacity with CHARGE mode after he forgot to press a button on powering ON.

I have been waiting for MMC to add some user sticky settings from the factory, but it seems there is still nothing new in the 2016 model.

 

[Carnut]

Many thanks.
cheers,
C

 

[anko]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

Dealers .....

Save should normally maintain the set level. But there may be times that "maintaining SOC" means asking more from the engine than it can provide. For example, during climbing, towing or heavy accelerations, the engine may be running and still need support from the E-motors. At such moments, SOC will go down instead of up. SOC will drop below the set value. When driving conditions normalise, Save will continue to maintain SOC, but at this lower level.

I think SOC could go up as well. When you hit Save at the top of a hill and then descent the hill with a lot of regen, Save could end up maintaining a higher level of SOC than you started off with.

 

[greendwarf]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

Dealers .....

Save should normally maintain the set level. But there may be times that "maintaining SOC" means asking more from the engine than it can provide. For example, during climbing, towing or heavy accelerations, the engine may be running and still need support from the E-motors. At such moments, SOC will go down instead of up. SOC will drop below the set value. When driving conditions normalise, Save will continue to maintain SOC, but at this lower level.

I think SOC could go up as well. When you hit Save at the top of a hill and then descent the hill with a lot of regen, Save could end up maintaining a higher level of SOC than you started off with.

Some hills between Poole & Christchurch but nothing very steep or long and all urban roads - so probably lots of stop/start motoring. Ideal EV trip so, rather odd choice then to do it under ICE. :? But 35.1 mpg also seems very low for that kind of journey, which suggests possibly a "heavy left foot" :idea:

I note Carnut didn't answer my question as to the battery level, which is more important.

 

[GrahamRC]

Had my PHEV Gx3h+ for 3 weeks now. I leave for work at 7:15am and preheat for 10 minutes while plugged into the mains. During this period when outside air temperature has ranged from -3C to 10C I have had no problems with condensation on the windscreen. I normall drive with the aircon on AUTO and with the Eco button pressed. Perhaps the OP has a problem of a water leak?

 

[Carnut]

Greendwarf,
Sorry not sure (being a newby) where battery state is. No didn't have any leccy drain running.
I ran on 'save' purely as an experiment to see 1.what effect it would have on mpg. On hybridt I get 38 to 40 round town.
2. To see if batter save actually worked . But Poole Mit told me it will only save 75% of starting mileage.

 

[greendwarf]

Greendwarf,
Sorry not sure (being a newby) where battery state is. No didn't have any leccy drain running.
I ran on 'save' purely as an experiment to see 1.what effect it would have on mpg. On hybridt I get 38 to 40 round town.
2. To see if batter save actually worked . But Poole Mit told me it will only save 75% of starting mileage.

Straight in front of you (thro' the steering wheel) in the central dashboard screen which shows 2 blue columns - the one on the right is a petrol gauge (as per normal car) and the one on the left the battery level. It will be completely blue (i.e. full) when fully charged and "empty" when you are out of usable range. In Save mode you would expect this to show very little movement up or down.

So just like the petrol gauge, what is important is how much energy have you in the battery NOT how far the car thinks you can go in EV - hence my question. The dealer might be right about the 75% but I've never observed this and no other user has ever mentioned it.

However, I'm now really baffled by you stating "38 to 40" around town on "hybrid". If you mean not in Save or Charge mode and in EV mode (i.e. no ICE running) then mpg should be "----" i.e. infinity. Either you do a lot of miles between recharges and beyond EV range using the ICE or you do have a heavy left foot and so are firing up the ICE unnecessarily.

This car is designed for urban use, primarily in EV. Frankly it sounds as though you are either completely misunderstanding how to get the best out of it (in which case dealer tutorial should help) or, I admit, you do seem to have a rogue car (again dealer issue) because by the sound of it your usage should be a perfect fit for the car. :?

 

[gwatpe]

Claymore, YES I DID!
Poole Mitsu told me this morning that 'SAVE' will only save 3/4 of the displayed charge Hence the drop from 20 to 13!
When 13 Miles actually equals about 13 Km (in my experience) it seems a pretty pointless button.

Dealers .....

Save should normally maintain the set level. But there may be times that "maintaining SOC" means asking more from the engine than it can provide. For example, during climbing, towing or heavy accelerations, the engine may be running and still need support from the E-motors. At such moments, SOC will go down instead of up. SOC will drop below the set value. When driving conditions normalise, Save will continue to maintain SOC, but at this lower level.

I think SOC could go up as well. When you hit Save at the top of a hill and then descent the hill with a lot of regen, Save could end up maintaining a higher level of SOC than you started off with.

Although this a little off topic, the way my PHEV operates is like this.

The battery level that you press SAVE at is preserved until SAVE is activated again, say by toggling the SAVE button, or powering down and back ON again. My PHEV has started with 100% gauge for the battery with SAVE pressed. Gauge indicated electric drain initially of 2 bars, and over time went back up to about 15 bars. Have never seen the gauge return to indicate full in SAVE mode, 16 bars. I have seen my PHEV drop down at least 4 bars in certain conditions, and recover all 4 bars in SAVE mode. I have seen my PHEV return more than 3bars above where SAVE was pressed, prior to a steep downhill drive, [at say 50% on the gauge]. Without resetting the SAVE point, the PHEV just empties the battery back to the lower SAVE setting, and maintains the level there. You can only maintain a higher %SOC level if the SAVE mode level has been reset at that higher level. I use this method on every trip I make to the city.

On my AUS road trip, I had no corded recharging for all of July 2015, and using SAVE, I only used CHARGE a few times that I forgot to restore SAVE mode after periods of selecting EV "NORMAL" mode operation after powering ON.

My PHEV presently, normally powers ON in SAVE mode, and has done so for many months now. I still control battery use, by toggling the SAVE button when stationary in traffic, or in the city, but I have not been caught with a depleted battery, having forgotten to press SAVE at the right time.