Fjpod
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:38 am

ThudnBlundr wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:54 am
Fjpod wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:36 pm
Just read this whole thread trying to get a grip on the best way to reduce gasoline consumption on long trips. It's been over a year since anyone contributed. Don't mean to criticize here guys, but most people are all over the place with anecdotal evidence... And I guess I will add to it...

I tried using Charge recently on a long trip, my instantaneous mpg went down. It's hard to imagine how this is better for reducing gasoline consumption. Listening to everyone giving their experiences... Uphill .. downhill... How is one supposed to enjoy the drive?

It would seem to me the only time it pays to use Charge would be near the end of a long highway trip to ensure you have enough drive battery to get through whatever slow town driving you need to get to your destination.
... And maybe near top speed, if the ice is not laboring heavily, you might try to siphon off some revolutions to send to the battery.

Fwiw.
You're totally missing the point of how the PHEV works - it needs a certain amount of energy to get from A to B and it has to get that energy from the ICE once the battery is empty. On any journey that would empty the battery, the PHEV will run in what is effectively Charge mode to top up the battery until the range has increases a mile or so and then run in EV till the range has dropped down. With Save pressed, it does the same except around the higher EV range. So it has to run in Charge far more than 50% of the time whatever you do, and it cycles through this hysteresis loop until the end of the journey regardless of how or where you're driving. So saying that pressing Charge increases fuel consumption is meaningless. Of course it increases consumption, but how is the PHEV to get energy to move otherwise?

What you can do is influence when the PHEV is using EV or charging from the ICE. So running Charge for longer than the usual 1-mile increase in range will allow you to use EV for longer. So you can choose to run EV in town and Charge on faster roads, which is environmentally more friendly and some believe may be more fuel-efficient. But you can't alter the fact that the PHEV needs to run the ICE whatever you do.
I think you missed the point of my post. I know the Phev manages the relationship between charging and saving, and that the buttons allow you to alter that relationship a bit, and if you read the last two assertions of my post, I said the same thing you did in fewer words.
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ThudnBlundr
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:29 am

Fjpod wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:36 pm
I tried using Charge recently on a long trip, my instantaneous mpg went down. It's hard to imagine how this is better for reducing gasoline consumption.
Either you understand how the PHEV works, or you find "It's hard to imagine how this is better for reducing gasoline consumption". You can't think both. My post was responding to that assertion.
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nkane
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm

Please pardon the thread revival, all. I've owned my MY20 for about 10 days now but haven't had the opportunity to drive farther than the battery range. But soon I will drive to the mountains and after reading this very helpful thread, I wanted to put my scenario past the great minds here and see what you think the optimal strategy is.

My priorities for the drive are twofold: 1. maintain enough SOC for the big climbs to have adequate acceleration to pass trucks. 2. reduce overall fuel consumption.

Here we go: from Berkeley, CA to Lake Tahoe is 203 miles.
  • The first ~60 miles is freeway driving, but with frequent patches of stop-and-go traffic as you get through Bay Area rush hour.
  • Then you have about 50 miles of flat, open freeway from Davis to the Sierra foothills where traffic generally averages 75-80mph.
  • From Auburn to Donner Pass is the business: over 60 miles, you gain 7000 feet from the fertile Central Valley up to the crest of the Sierra Nevada at Donner Summit. Over that climb, your vertical gain is more like 9000 feet with 2000' of descending.
  • From Donner Summit you descend 2000' to Truckee over 8ish miles and then take surface streets a few miles to your destination.
  • At the end of the weekend, I'll reverse this and head home.
Here's a map: https://goo.gl/maps/ayJC2bkEgkbhPNVa6 You can change to bike directions to get a sense of the elevation profile.


After reading through the thread, it seems like the optimal sequence is this:
  • Use EV Mode to keep the ICE off for the first mile from my house to the freeway.
  • Then go into Normal mode and let the car manage itself until Davis.
  • At that point, press Charge to refill the battery, hoping that it gets up to its highest possible charge before the big climb.
  • Keep the car in Charge while climbing, except turning it off and using Regen during downhills (such as the big downhill at Emigrant Gap).
  • Go back to normal mode at Donner Summit and let the car manage itself for the rest of the drive.
  • assuming I can't charge while in Tahoe, drive around in Charge mode during the weekend to accumulate SOC for the climb back up Donner Summit on the way home.
  • once headed back down the mountains, resume Normal mode for most of the drive home.
  • hit Charge again when 10 or 20 miles from home to get enough SOC to take me the last mile in EV mode.
Does that sound right? Anyone have suggestions for further refinements on the plan? For instance, I imagine that I'll build up some decent SOC on the descent out of the mountains. Does it make more sense to preserve that charge for later by hitting Save?

mellobob
Posts: 113
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Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:12 pm

Sounds overly complicated. When we go on a hwy trip I let the battery drop to around 80% then I flick on <save>. If I know that the end of the trip is close, I switch off <save> in time to drain the battery before getting home where I can charge again. Despite what others may say around here, the PHEV does a pretty good job of managing the battery.

Fjpod
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:26 am

I have found that the strategy of using the Charge button really decreases mpg. I would only do this if you anticipate significant stop and go driving at future points in your journey.

I find a better strategy is to use the Save button to reserve battery power for upcoming stop and go traffic. If you run out of battery... You run out. The car will still perform admirably. You will still be able to climb a hill or pass a truck with relative ease. The electric motors will still contribute to your total power. Don't waste your battery on tough hill climbs, or 30 second truck passes. Use your battery to maintain speed on long, level patches of road where you have momentum, or when slightly declining in altitude.

As far as going uphill and passing, the ICE is more efficient. Use it for short bursts. All you have to do is press harder on the pedal. You will preserve your battery for more efficient use later. Don't be overly consumed by the buttons. Let the cars computer manage things.

One of your goals should be to get to your next charging point, or home, with no charge left.
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jaapv
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:46 am

However, if you anticipate significant use of battery power for longer periods, like long climbs in the mountain or sustained high speed motorway driving, or entering an ECO zone, it is useful to keep the battery as well charged as you can. Another use is to anticipate fast acceleration. The charge button will eliminate the hesitation the car exhibits when it needs to start the ICE for full power.
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Tai626
Posts: 115
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:08 am

We have a couple of Californian with Outlander driving up and down the looong pass (Cajon/Tejon).

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4842

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4624&p=51612&hilit= ... ass#p51612

STS has been going up hill at 90mph full length 10mi without any issue if the batteries are 80% full, I think. The only issue was the CHP :-)

Going down hill it is better to have batteries empty for safety and harvest the regen. If you go 90 mph down hill, there is not many energy to regen because of the aerodynamic of SUV.

These are the realistic scenarios of how we usually drive here is California. If you drive around 75mph and keep batteries at 50% all the time using charge mode, you should be fine.

Another thing we find out is the gas tank capacity: 13.5+ gallons. The last 2 gal. takes more than 5min to fill up but totally worth the time in a long trip :-)

Tai
Outlander PHEV SEL pearl white - MY2018

jaapv
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:12 am

Actually, by mountain driving I did not mean blasting up motorways through the mountains @ 90 mph. I mean long, steep roads with hairpins which will make you happy to average 20 mph, like for instance the Passo di Stelvio, or the Col de Iseran.

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(Wikipedia)
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mellobob
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:35 am

I know drivers who would attempt to do that hill at 90 :)

jaapv
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Re: Do not be scared of using that charge button.

Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:15 am

I already met one of those... In 2011, on that very mountain...

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