Bugs and odd decisions in the Outlander PHEV

[jaapv]

And the solution is so simple. Mitsubishi needs only adopt the battery technology of the Mercedes EV AA. It could easily be implemented as an update to exisiting vehicles too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arQ8_PW-RiA

 

[ian4x4]

Thanks for video clip jaapv, fantastic.

 

[elm70]

I think when the battery gets to hot, it should reduce power output by itself. And if it doesn't, the product should not be released. At least not with 'castracting an EV button' as a workaround. I simply cannot imagine this is what happened.

Which appears not to be the way technology works. For instance this is the "solution" for Boeing 787 Li-Ion batteries overheating and catching fire. Fire-containment measures instead of addressing the battery problems...

The Federal Aviation Administration decided on April 19, 2013 to allow US Dreamliners to return to service after changes were made to their battery systems to better contain battery fires. Japanese authorities announced they were doing the same for their airplanes. The causes of the battery failures are still unknown. There is still concern that because the root cause of the fires were not identified, the solutions put in place by Boeing will not be able to cover the full range of possible failure modes. These include problems that may arise from poor systems integration between the engine indicating and crew alerting system (EICAS) and the battery management system

You quoted me WRONG

I never wrote that

 

[jaapv]

Sorry, the forum quote structure can sometimes be mixed up. I think it was a remark by Anko in reply to you. I'll try and sort it.

Edit: Done. I think

 

[Dusz]

Loved the video :lol: :lol:

 

[greendwarf]

For example ... average Japanese driver has not the same need of the average driver in Germany.

Exactly! I keep making the point that this primarily a car designed for the Japanese market. Their industry has always had a strong tendency not to design cars for the world market because of the lack of non-Japanese executives in the companies - especially designers. I didn't travel enough in cars enough in Japan to judge whether their driving style would tend not to need an EV button but the Japanese do find it difficult to understand us gaijin. They just got lucky with the PHEV.

 

[jaapv]

Hmmm... There must be a reason that the Japanese car industry grew to be about the largest in the world, exports over 50% of the cars produced, killed off the British car manufacturers and managed to penetrate the USA and European market in a major fashion, despite driving habits differing widely.
Those Japanese managers and designers must have hit the right spot somehow...
They may not understand us all that well, although I strongly suspect they understand us better than we do them and I never found a lack of understanding when socializing with Japanese people outside both Europe and Japan, but in any case they are smart enough to hire decision-making staff from abroad.

(BTW, Mitsubishi's design facility is in Cypress, California, and consists of an international staff).

 

[anko]

greendwarf, if they do not know what we need, how would we know what they need?

Look at it this way: if it was designed for the Japanese market it would be about half as tall ... :mrgreen:

 

[greendwarf]

but in any case they are smart enough to hire decision-making staff from abroad.

That certainly wasn't so with Toyota - their lack of foreign managers was the main reason they got it so wrong over the "dangerous" cars fiasco in the US several years ago! It was the lack of understanding of the importance of customer feedback, as opposed to the Japanese tendency to accept what they are given, that got them in to trouble.

 

[greendwarf]

greendwarf, if they do not know what we need, how would we know what they need?

Look at it this way: if it was designed for the Japanese market it would be about half as tall ... :mrgreen:

:lol: But it was the smaller scale of Japanese cars that particularly appealed to female customers in the West and the build quality to the rest of us.

 

[jaapv]

but in any case they are smart enough to hire decision-making staff from abroad.

That certainly wasn't so with Toyota - their lack of foreign managers was the main reason they got it so wrong over the "dangerous" cars fiasco in the US several years ago! It was the lack of understanding of the importance of customer feedback, as opposed to the Japanese tendency to accept what they are given, that got them in to trouble.

In that case VW must have Japanese managers as well....
How many Toyotas were sold in the world outside Japan last year? Right - some non-Japanese must accept the designs.

 

[elm70]

I think we are going a bit OT with the Japan"issue"

There is no question that Japanese can make good cars, like Chinese can make good PC/tablet/smartphone

But, we should also not forget how they did start : by coping ... and how many total failure they did produce when they tried to sell "Japanese style" outside japan .. like the joint venture Nissan-AlfaRomeo Arna ... Japanese design with Italian production :lol:

Actually ... I'm not questioning either their quality not their "origin" .. it is simply not relevant

German car producers are also capable to make excellent car too

The point is that 4000 japanese as "feedback" when roll out the first PHEV, it is a small "sample" (even if 4000 people is a big number of driver) for cover the needs and wishes from world wide customers (Note : actually I'm more after EU customers, I don't care of world wide needs :ugeek: )

So, having 50% of feedback from EU drivers would have been beneficial.

Anyhow, even if Mitsubishi has world wide presence and R&D possibly in all the 5 continents ... I still tent to believe that German car companies are more connected to the need of EU drivers, since they are sitting in the heart of Europe and they have better view and more direct feedback from their EU customers (in Germany are also living tons of EU citizens, so it is a more mixed society compared to Japan which is a relative close culture/country)

PS: The success of the Outlander PHEV, that is a success in a "nice" market, it is due to a combination of price, technical characteristics (EV range, 4x4, SUV design) and "small" or no competition ... especially back in 2013/14 and 15 ... now in 2016 we can start to see some sort of "competition"

PPS: Not sure if I got right .. but the core of the EV 4x4 system in this PHEV is done by GKN, which supply many other producers in the world, like BMW and Mercedes too ... it is looking "odd" to me to see that core element are common amongst very different brands

 

[anko]

PPS: Not sure if I got right .. but the core of the EV 4x4 system in this PHEV is done by GKN, which supply many other producers in the world, like BMW and Mercedes too ... it is looking "odd" to me to see that core element are common amongst very different brands

Common supplier is not the same as common component

 

[elm70]

PPS: Not sure if I got right .. but the core of the EV 4x4 system in this PHEV is done by GKN, which supply many other producers in the world, like BMW and Mercedes too ... it is looking "odd" to me to see that core element are common amongst very different brands

Common supplier is not the same as common component

Right ... but the difference is very very narrow

I know how NDA works, and for sure they have plenty in place inside GKN ... but :ugeek:

 

[anko]

GKN is primarily responsible for building the drive train that connects ICE, front motor and generator to the front axle. With a single fixed ratio gear, remember? So, nothing like BMW, Mercedes or VW have.

The PHEV 4x4 system is implemented by making front and rear drivetrains working together properly while propelling the car. All electronically controlled by PHEV ECU, nothing mechanical in there. I would not expect GKN to have anything to do with that. But who knows ....

 

[elm70]

GKN is primarily responsible for building the drive train that connects ICE, from motor and generator to the front axle.

The PHEV 4x4 system is implemented by making front and rear drivetrains working together properly while propelling the car. All electronically controlled by PHEV ECU, nothing mechanical in there. I would not expect GKN to have anything to do with that. But who knows ....

I still have to understand GKN .. I have seen and interview to a GKN representative, and they mention Outlander PHEV mulltiple times as reference of their involvement in the EV power train .. it was sounding not only the differential and other mechanicals part were done by then, but EV electric engines too .. but ... yes .. which exact part are done by who is tricky

Like EV engine used by Mercedes (can't recall the model) and Tesla S is the same ... or with very minor differences

 

[Tipper]

...
Look at it this way: if it was designed for the Japanese market it would be about half as tall ... :mrgreen:

Some things are...I've lost count of the number of times I've banged my head on the tailgate! Yes, I know, I'm a slow learner... :lol:

 

[anko]

...
Look at it this way: if it was designed for the Japanese market it would be about half as tall ... :mrgreen:

Some things are...I've lost count of the number of times I've banged my head on the tailgate! Yes, I know, I'm a slow learner... :lol:

:lol: :lol: Just once or twice here. But those times did count!

 

[elm70]

Some things are...I've lost count of the number of times I've banged my head on the tailgate! Yes, I know, I'm a slow learner... :lol:

Still did not happen .. but I guess it is just a matter of time

About tail gate, I had a sort of "critical bug" .. I almost crashed it .. since it got open automatically as soon as I plug in my ODB2 ELM327 clone :shock: .. it was a millimetre issue from crashing 2 cars in one shot

Still .. not sure if it is a PHEV bug ... or cheap ebay ODB2 bug ... for be fair .. let's blame the Chinese production this time :ugeek:

 

[ian4x4]

GKN is primarily responsible for building the drive train that connects ICE, front motor and generator to the front axle. With a single fixed ratio gear, remember? So, nothing like BMW, Mercedes or VW have.

The PHEV 4x4 system is implemented by making front and rear drivetrains working together properly while propelling the car. All electronically controlled by PHEV ECU, nothing mechanical in there. I would not expect GKN to have anything to do with that. But who knows ....

GKN make all kinds of transmission components, including my 'wish list' 2 speed electric back axle. (as used by BMW to allow increase of performance at low and high speeds)

http://www.gkn.com/driveline/our-solutions/edrive-systems/integrated-edrive-systems/Pages/default.aspx