Bye bye ecotricity?

[JSC]

Do you really mean Rapid chargers i.e. CHADEMO, like the Ecotricity ones?

Yes, I used one of their CHADEMO chargers in a car park just outside Evesham last week. It was advertised as costing 9p/KWh, but when I'd finished the charge the machine showed 0KWH consumption and I wasn't charged. I must have consumed 8-9 KWh, so it was an unexpected free charge

 

[user 816]

Do you really mean Rapid chargers i.e. CHADEMO, like the Ecotricity ones?

Yes, I used one of their CHADEMO chargers in a car park just outside Evesham last week. It was advertised as costing 9p/KWh, but when I'd finished the charge the machine showed 0KWH consumption and I wasn't charged. I must have consumed 8-9 KWh, so it was an unexpected free charge

yes definitely found a few Chademo on the map as free, such as at a Waitrose who I assume fund it for the business gain.

Problem is the low numbers of Chademo's I am not sure I want to spend substantial time at many of the regular sites. Perhaps they will be pushed to upgrade more sites in response to the Ecotricity situation.

 

[jaapv]

Do you really mean Rapid chargers i.e. CHADEMO, like the Ecotricity ones?

Yes, edited.

 

[Kesto]

My reply to ecotricity


The chargers are unrealistic. £1.20 for 30min is reasonable as no car can charge 80% in 20 min. The services also get business from the coffee and food we buy, and there will be revenue benefit to ecotricity . This no PHEV drivers will come to you.
So no thank you

 

[user 1927]

Having entered my last years usage from our current supplier in to the ecotricity site, it comes out just less than we pay at the moment. So no brainer to switch, as my PHEV wouldn't be economical to run without the ability to rapid charge each day. Having said that, £5 really can't be justified.

 

[user 816]

Having entered my last years usage from our current supplier in to the ecotricity site, it comes out just less than we pay at the moment. So no brainer to switch, as my PHEV wouldn't be economical to run without the ability to rapid charge each day. Having said that, £5 really can't be justified.

It might be cheaper than your current supplier, that just means you are already on a too expensive one!

To be honest that is a pretty slim reason to change to them, they are about 45% more than you could pay for electricity so your really need to compare the value of a daily rapid charge, if you did it every single day its worth about 80p x 365 = £292, as their electricity would cost me £500 more per year its a no brainer NOT to switch to them!

 

[user 1927]

I rapid charge twice daily, so yes, for me it's worth it.

 

[user 816]

I rapid charge twice daily, so yes, for me it's worth it.

Every day of the year? - Also you said the PHEV only worked out for you if you rapid charge it, but that was when you were getting it free, you will now be paying them substantially for charging, so the economics change drastically.

Glad if it works out for you, but however you look at it, your running cost have to increase considerably.

 

[greendwarf]

I rapid charge twice daily, so yes, for me it's worth it.

Every day of the year? - Also you said the PHEV only worked out for you if you rapid charge it, but that was when you were getting it free, you will now be paying them substantially for charging, so the economics change drastically.

Glad if it works out for you, but however you look at it, your running cost have to increase considerably.

Er, I think the point is that Ecotricity customers will still be getting to use their Rapid chargers for free - so his running costs are the same!

 

[Kesto]

I compared my electricity bill on based on usage with current provider and ecotricity was £ 556 more than what I pay now.
So no way it will compensate even it is free for eco members. There will be exceptions to the rule say if one lives close to a rapid and constantly uses it. For non members charging on the run works out cheaper( PHEV)

 

[user 816]

I rapid charge twice daily, so yes, for me it's worth it.

Every day of the year? - Also you said the PHEV only worked out for you if you rapid charge it, but that was when you were getting it free, you will now be paying them substantially for charging, so the economics change drastically.

Glad if it works out for you, but however you look at it, your running cost have to increase considerably.

Er, I think the point is that Ecotricity customers will still be getting to use their Rapid chargers for free - so his running costs are the same!

er I think the point is Ecotricity customer won't be getting rapid charges for free, you either pay at point of use or have to sign up to their hideous consumer tariff and pay by the back door, either way running your PHEV is now £100's of pound more expensive per year if you need rapid charging.

If his tariff was anywhere near Ecotricity's then he was overpaying by choice and could have switched and cut his bill

 

[greendwarf]

But it also depends on why you have a PHEV in the first place. This ranges all the way from business users who are only interested in the tax advantages and never use it in EV mode, through to ECO warriors who are primarily concerned with reducing their carbon foot print (but in relative comfort), even if this costs them more money - I'm near this end of the spectrum :mrgreen:

Of course, if I really was that bothered about the planet or even money then I wouldn't drive the car into central London each day but would use my free travel card on public transport - in fact, without these journey's I'd be hard pressed to justify a car at all

So for me. I might be prepared to pay more for the "green" electricity from Ecotricity to enable me to maximise my EV driving because it is still cheaper (and greener) than my previous petrol car. As I've already posted. the biggest bug-bear for me would be having to get a Smart 'phone to use the new app :twisted:

 

[EssexBoy]

Unfortunately for you guys, you have caught up with us here in the Netherlands. We have been in that situation for more than two years now. The rapid chargers alongside our motorways are virtually never used. I think Jaapv has predicted this would happen to you guys at some point.

Yes, but how does their business model work then? Building infrastructure and then overpricing your service seems suicidal. Surely they should start low and slowly ramp the price to seduce us into paying over the top. That's how car parking did it. And <add your favourite overpriced service/product here >.

 

[anko]

Unfortunately for you guys, you have caught up with us here in the Netherlands. We have been in that situation for more than two years now. The rapid chargers alongside our motorways are virtually never used. I think Jaapv has predicted this would happen to you guys at some point.

Yes, but how does their business model work then.

From what I can see, it doesn't. I can'tell remember the last time I saw one occupied.

There are plans available that drastically cut charging hidden costs. But only if you use them an awful lot, from what I understand. More for BEV that PHEV.

 

[SolarBoy]

But it also depends on why you have a PHEV in the first place. This ranges all the way from business users who are only interested in the tax advantages and never use it in EV mode, through to ECO warriors who are primarily concerned with reducing their carbon foot print (but in relative comfort), even if this costs them more money - I'm near this end of the spectrum :mrgreen:

Of course, if I really was that bothered about the planet or even money then I wouldn't drive the car into central London each day but would use my free travel card on public transport - in fact, without these journey's I'd be hard pressed to justify a car at all

So for me. I might be prepared to pay more for the "green" electricity from Ecotricity to enable me to maximise my EV driving because it is still cheaper (and greener) than my previous petrol car. As I've already posted. the biggest bug-bear for me would be having to get a Smart 'phone to use the new app :twisted:

How rude :lol: I am a business user that has solar panels and rarely uses petrol. Considering swapping from EON whose CO2's are much higher than I thought :shock:

 

[user 816]

But it also depends on why you have a PHEV in the first place. This ranges all the way from business users who are only interested in the tax advantages and never use it in EV mode, through to ECO warriors who are primarily concerned with reducing their carbon foot print (but in relative comfort), even if this costs them more money - I'm near this end of the spectrum :mrgreen:

Of course, if I really was that bothered about the planet or even money then I wouldn't drive the car into central London each day but would use my free travel card on public transport - in fact, without these journey's I'd be hard pressed to justify a car at all

So for me. I might be prepared to pay more for the "green" electricity from Ecotricity to enable me to maximise my EV driving because it is still cheaper (and greener) than my previous petrol car. As I've already posted. the biggest bug-bear for me would be having to get a Smart 'phone to use the new app :twisted:

Yes I thought that point would be raised and it is valid that some may be happy to pay extra for a renewable power tariff and I can respect that.

Personally I think energy is far too expensive as it is so I object to paying a penny more than I have to for it. I am probably the eco warriors anti-christ as I would scrap all renewables and build lots of nuclear power stations, fully government controlled and funded to give the country plenty of cheap self sufficient energy.

 

[ChrisMiller]

I am probably the eco warriors anti-christ as I would scrap all renewables and build lots of nuclear power stations

Intelligent Greens who understand the science support nuclear power, as the only means of generating reliable zero-carbon base load electricity (unless you're a country blessed with extensive hydro-electric capacity).

 

[maby]

Unfortunately for you guys, you have caught up with us here in the Netherlands. We have been in that situation for more than two years now. The rapid chargers alongside our motorways are virtually never used. I think Jaapv has predicted this would happen to you guys at some point.

Yes, but how does their business model work then? Building infrastructure and then overpricing your service seems suicidal. Surely they should start low and slowly ramp the price to seduce us into paying over the top. That's how car parking did it. And <add your favourite overpriced service/product here >.

My employer is an outsourcing company and we did look speculatively at bidding to take on the London contract. I did a quick back of a fag packet calculation and came to the conclusion that the price had to be in that region to make it worth running. The cost of the infrastructure is very high and while the charging points may be busy during daytime peak periods, you can't assume anything like 100% occupancy at nights, so much of your profit has to come from the daytime rush hours. You also need a fairly high time based charge to stop people leaving the car sitting fully charged on a point.

 

[anko]

You also need a fairly high time based charge to stop people leaving the car sitting fully charged on a point.

How about a low time based rated for "while still charging" and a (very) high time based rate for "after charging has completed"?

 

[maby]

You also need a fairly high time based charge to stop people leaving the car sitting fully charged on a point.

How about a low time based rated for "while still charging" and a (very) high time based rate for "after charging has completed"?

Fine if your systems can support that - I suspect that the current generation of ChaDeMo chargers cannot. But even then, the price of a charge does need to be approaching £5 to make the whole thing commercially viable. We did look at it seriously, but could not find a cost model that made it attractive to bid.

Consider this - a ChaDeMo charger reportedly costs something approaching £50,000 to install. That is not just the roadside hardware - there is the cost of planning, admin, installation, mains supply cabling (these things draw a lot of power, so you can't assume that there is a convenient spur just laying around for you to hoop up to), plus a contribution towards the central administrative systems. There will also be an ongoing maintenance cost - these things don't last forever - in fact, given the grumbles here about chargers not working, it seems that their life expectancy is possibly not that great. We would have been seeking to recover the cost within 3 years - so say £15,000 per annum - and that is not allowing for the cost of money. How many times per day will it be used? At best it will do about 48 per day allowing 20 minutes for the charge and a 10 minute change over period. That comes out at about 17,000 charge cycles per annum - so we are looking at about £1 per charge simply to cover the investment in the infrastructure - and that is assuming that every charging point is close to 100% occupied 24x365. In practice, taking into account the cost of money and maintenance, you probably have to charge £2 per cycle simply to recoup the cost of installing and maintaining them.

That does not include the cost of the electricity delivered. The infrastructure operators will get it cheaper than a domestic customer, but even a PHEV will draw 60p or more in power. A pure EV with a big battery will draw well over £1 in charge - add that to the £2 above and we are looking at £3 per charge cycle without taking into account any profit... Our back of a fag packet calculation was indicating at least £4 per charge and that was making some optimistic assumptions - Ecotricity's £5 does not seem particularly wide of the mark to me....