Bye bye ecotricity?

[JSC]

News just in. Price is now £6 for a 30 minute charge. That's a no from me. I'm out.

Dear Jonathan Clough

The Electric Highway upgrade has started.

We finished the first two electricity pumps at Gloucester Services yesterday and we’ll continue to upgrade them, one at a time, to enable you to operate the pumps using the ‘charging for charging’ model on our new EH app.

The entire transition should be complete by Friday 5 August.

If you haven’t already done so, now is a good time to download the app. You can do that really easily here.

Since making the announcement last week, we’ve had a number of conversations with Electric Highway members – and had feedback particularly about the proposed 20 minute charge session.

As a result of this, we’re changing our approach - and charging sessions will instead be for 30 minutes and cost £6 (as opposed to 20 minutes for £5).

From the feedback we’ve received, this should ensure that the vast majority of EV drivers are able to achieve the ideal 80% recharge in one session.

In terms of value for money, this change results in 50% more charging time for just a 20% increase in cost – overall, that’s a 25% net reduction in cost.

We know there are lots of EV drivers with different needs – there are around 40 different models of electric vehicles on the road and three charging standards – but we hope this new model strikes the right balance for everyone. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how this transition pans out and we’ll keep listening to feedback.

That’s it for now. We’ll keep you updated as the rollout progresses.

Thanks for being with us.

Dale Vince

P.S. Remember, the Electric Highway is still free for Ecotricity energy customers, so if you haven’t switched already, follow the instructions below

 

[user 816]

We know... see previous posts!

Got my freeby charge today, maybe its my imagination but the chargers I use are really quiet now, not just PHEV's but no LEAFs or Zoe's around either so much.

Perhaps people are trying to keep to home and work charging and not use their EV for long journeys. (they assuming many post may be chargeable already)

Swampy Dale may have priced himself into a giant flop! ... time will tell.

Dale! call us when its 15p a kW and we will help you out, hope the EU doesn't want its stake money back old son.

 

[Dusz]

Different pages on the Ecotricity site state different things. On one page it says £5 for 20 minutes charge and on another page it says £6 for 30 minutes. The £6 charge is after feedback from a number of their customers. Doesn't appear that they are listening to Outlander PHEV users. Wonder if other plug-in hybrids have the same issue as I believe that the Outlander has one of the longer range distances.

Auto Express also ran the story. Apparently up till end March there were approximately 60,000 electric and PHEV vehicles registered. Just under 30% of these were Outlanders, with the Nissan leaf in second.

The top 15 reads:-
1 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 19945
2 Nissan Leaf 12469
3 BMW i3 including range extender 4065
4 Renault Zoe 3918
5 Tesla Model S 2826
6 VW Golf GTE 1970
7 Mercedes-Benz C350e 1898
8 Toyota Prius PHEV 1651
9 Vauxhall Ampera 1261
10 Audi A3 e-Tron 1445
11 Nissan e-NV200 1243
12 BMW i8 1163
13 Renault Kangoo ZE 753
14 Volvo XC90 T8 twin engine 561
15 Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid 454

So it looks like Ecotricity have just alienated a large proportion (30%) of their clientele. If the charge had been more realistic then it would be more palatable.
Walking the dog tonight I saw a BMW 2 series tourer PHEV in our village so PHEV's are becoming more popular, or were.

 

[user 1927]

Having planned to switch electricity providers to keep the free charging, I've changed my mind after discovering the Fair Use Policy, which equates to one free charge a week in a calendar year. That's me screwed then. Was happy to pay, but that just isn't economical in my circumstances. Shame, as I really like the car, but it will have to go :-(

 

[jdearauj]

Having planned to switch electricity providers to keep the free charging, I've changed my mind after discovering the Fair Use Policy, which equates to one free charge a week in a calendar year. That's me screwed then. Was happy to pay, but that just isn't economical in my circumstances. Shame, as I really like the car, but it will have to go :-(

Agreed, I just noticed it and pasted the quote below:

Does free mean I have unlimited use of the network / what is your fair usage policy?

The Electric Highway is free to use for Ecotricity energy customers.

There are some Electric Highway members who use the network an extremely high number of times, so we do have a fair usage policy – 52 charges each year (the equivalent of over £300 of free juice). That’s just so that we can ensure fair and equal use of the network.

Not many people use more than 52 charges a year, so it’s very unlikely that this restriction would limit your free use of the network.

 

[user 816]

What an utter joke!

Would cost me £840 to switch for what? 52 charges so about £40 worth of electicity for a PHEV..

Dreadful.

 

[anko]

What a mess. Let's hope nobody has fallen for that yet.

(the equivalent of over £300 of free juice).

So, if they make charging even more expensive, the advantage of switching to them will be even bigger :evil:

 

[JSC]

I just used the Ecotricity CHADEMO charger at Leicester Forest East and noticed that it's also open to Source London and Plugged in Midlands card holders. Does anyone know whether these cards will still work and, if they do, whether they'll also be subject to the £6 charge? I expect the charge will still apply - possibly these cards will no longer work, but here's hoping

As for the fair use policy, that is another reason for not even looking at switching to Ecotricity as a home energy supplier. I wonder what happens if you are a multi-electric car household - is it fair use per car or per account?

 

[Tally]

It's now 6 pound for 30 mins I spoke to them and they stated they weren't interested in phev all they want is full electric using thier pumps
Why not charge at a rate per kwh it can't beyond them to set it up as pay as use
I have just completed 1109 miles in 3 days I charged 9 times there was a Nissan leaf at one point I was alone at 3 and at 5 I was beside an outlander PHEV not surprising as it's one of the most popular . Starting next week I think most will be empty !

 

[Kesto]

I am surprised the blame has fallen on PHEV. Here in the north the M62 corridor hardly has PHEV plugged in however in ikea yes. Also on the M62 corridor virtually every time I have turned up it is empty bar a couple. But here usually there are 3 chargers , so never a que.

 

[maby]

...

Why not charge at a rate per kwh it can't beyond them to set it up as pay as use
...

They probably could do it, but it would not solve their problem - they probably need closer to £10 per charge in order to make any profit from it.

 

[user 816]

Its just a pity the network wasn't built by a sensible energy company rather than a wacko renewable one with a maverick boss..

I am sorry Maby, but I just don't believe this isn't a cynical profiteering attempt. Misjudged as the future level of usage will be too small to make anything.

It will be like the M6 Toll road that didn't get a enough customers so put the price up, that just drove more private users away, so their answer to lost revenue was to keep putting the price up until they are just left with a core of people like me who would use it at any price as I can put it on expenses, and so it languishes largely empty and in financial doldrums.

Ecotricity will push prices up and end up with a sparsely used network of core people with low SOC forced to use it to get home. The recovery services will be kept busy picking up EV drivers that try and 'chance it' more and run out of charge in unexpected traffic.

What a mess.

 

[maby]

Its just a pity the network wasn't built by a sensible energy company rather than a wacko renewable one with a maverick boss..

I am sorry Maby, but I just don't believe this isn't a cynical profiteering attempt. Misjudged as the future level of usage will be too small to make anything.

....

As I said above, we did the sums with a view to possibly putting in a bid to run the London charging network - and our figures came out to pretty much the same as Ecotricity seem to have decided on. We are very experienced in this - we run many large IT and BPO contracts - so don't dismiss our calculations too lightly. Jaapv indicates that the pricing structure on the continent is very similar too.

I do suspect that the business model will not work, but cutting the price will not make it work any better. There is a significant infrastructure to cover and running it at a loss only makes sense if there is a strong prospect of being able to run it at a profit in the reasonably near future. Since the charging points are already installed and the cost committed, he is probably better off with them sitting there unused than selling electricity at less than the running cost.

PHEVs are an irrelevance to the public charging network - it will never be possible to sell them electricity at a profit because they can't take enough of it on and they don't have to buy it at all. The economics are different for pure EVs - 30 minutes on a ChaDeMo charger will take on enough power to do upwards of 100 miles - at £6, that gives you running costs that are competitive with petrol and still make financial sense. Anyone that bought an EV or PHEV on a running cost calculation that depended on free public charging was being very unrealistic - it was clearly only ever going to be a temporary thing and you only have to look 50 miles south east to see what was going to happen.

 

[user 816]

Its just a pity the network wasn't built by a sensible energy company rather than a wacko renewable one with a maverick boss..

I am sorry Maby, but I just don't believe this isn't a cynical profiteering attempt. Misjudged as the future level of usage will be too small to make anything.

....

As I said above, we did the sums with a view to possibly putting in a bid to run the London charging network - and our figures came out to pretty much the same as Ecotricity seem to have decided on. We are very experienced in this - we run many large IT and BPO contracts - so don't dismiss our calculations too lightly. Jaapv indicates that the pricing structure on the continent is very similar too.

I do suspect that the business model will not work, but cutting the price will not make it work any better. There is a significant infrastructure to cover and running it at a loss only makes sense if there is a strong prospect of being able to run it at a profit in the reasonably near future. Since the charging points are already installed and the cost committed, he is probably better off with them sitting there unused than selling electricity at less than the running cost.

PHEVs are an irrelevance to the public charging network - it will never be possible to sell them electricity at a profit because they can't take enough of it on and they don't have to buy it at all. The economics are different for pure EVs - 30 minutes on a ChaDeMo charger will take on enough power to do upwards of 100 miles - at £6, that gives you running costs that are competitive with petrol and still make financial sense. Anyone that bought an EV or PHEV on a running cost calculation that depended on free public charging was being very unrealistic - it was clearly only ever going to be a temporary thing and you only have to look 50 miles south east to see what was going to happen.

Certainly not dismissing your calculations, without seeing the Ecotricity accounts its difficult to truly evaluate their position. But if as you say its barely profitable or even unprofitable at the pricing they have introduced.. why bother to continue at all? that would make no business sense. It would be a strange business model to keep the network going long term subsidised by profit from domestic tariff customer signing up on Green principles (there being no financial reason to)

 

[maby]

Certainly not dismissing your calculations, without seeing the Ecotricity accounts its difficult to truly evaluate their position. But if as you say its barely profitable or even unprofitable at the pricing they have introduced.. why bother to continue at all? that would make no business sense. It would be a strange business model to keep the network going long term subsidised by profit from domestic tariff customer signing up on Green principles (there being no financial reason to)

My guess is that the network will remain pretty static, then gradually wither away unless the level of EV ownership rises considerably. The network in its current state is built and the costs committed, so there is little benefit in closing it down, but equally, there is no merit in selling it at less than running costs. £6 per charge is probably the lowest price at which the network makes any commercial sense - so I guess that Ecotricity are testing the water to see what level of takeup they can get at that price.

At £6 per charge, EVs are still competitive with petrol cars, so that sector of the market can still grow. PHEVs never really gained much from public charging - if the economics of PHEV ownership don't work out for you just charging at home and, possibly, at work, then it is probably not the car for you.

 

[Kesto]

To me mitsubishi phev still makes sense . I commute daily 28 miles on EV ,charging at home and may be once in 3-4 weeks do a long run and even then it does over average 70mpg in total , better than many diesel 4x4. Any phev is not for drivers doing more 50miles /day

 

[user 816]

To me mitsubishi phev still makes sense . I commute daily 28 miles on EV ,charging at home and may be once in 3-4 weeks do a long run and even then it does over average 70mpg in total , better than many diesel 4x4. Any phev is not for drivers doing more 50miles /day

Absolutely disagree!!! although my daily distances are highly variable I can hit around 40mpg any distance even when doing 250 miles a day even with just the home charge, it was just nice getting higher mpg with rapid charges especially as the company car tax advantage is still unbeatable (worth about £250 a month to me).

 

[Kesto]

You are doing good , 40 mpg on pure petrol for 250 miles in a 2 ton car is excellent. My opnion was based on the some unhappiness shown on forum with drivers stating 28mpg. My current average is 101mpg in total since my last refill and still it shows full tank and have used rapid 3 times. So it will have minor difference for me if I dont use ecotricity. We will not stop for Costa coffee.

 

[maby]

You are doing good , 40 mpg on pure petrol for 250 miles in a 2 ton car is excellent. My opnion was based on the some unhappiness shown on forum with drivers stating 28mpg. My current average is 101mpg in total since my last refill and still it shows full tank and have used rapid 3 times. So it will have minor difference for me if I dont use ecotricity. We will not stop for Costa coffee.

We have about 24,000 miles on the clock - most of them accumulated on long journeys running on petrol - our lifetime average fuel consumption is about 42mpg.

 

[user 816]

You are doing good , 40 mpg on pure petrol for 250 miles in a 2 ton car is excellent. My opnion was based on the some unhappiness shown on forum with drivers stating 28mpg. My current average is 101mpg in total since my last refill and still it shows full tank and have used rapid 3 times. So it will have minor difference for me if I dont use ecotricity. We will not stop for Costa coffee.

Thanks, I am fortunate that my work is more 'I get there when I get there' than I have to be there at 2pm or else, not saying there are not low mpg days but there are also really good days. Car is 18 months old and going for its 37500 mile service this week, long term average is 40 something (Can't be bothered to go look ) and lower blood pressure.