Choked by charging

[anko]

When charging while stationary, the engine will run at 1100 rpm, not several 1000s (only during a short warm up fase, the engine will run at approx. 1500 rpm). But I would think heat is not so much caused by engine rpm as by engine load.

Still, I've done 3000 km of towing my 1500 km caravan in the last three weeks. Especially the last 400 km were interesting: a strong headwind and somewhat in a hurry to get home. All this time the engine was running at 100% load, alternating between longer periods of parallel mode (approx 2700 rpm) and shorter periods of serial mode (4100 rpm). No smell to be noticed. I think the smell is there, but due to your speed it is notice or behind your car and not in your car.

 

[greendwarf]

When charging while stationary, the engine will run at 1100 rpm, not several 1000s (only during a short warm up fase, the engine will run at approx. 1500 rpm). But I would think heat is not so much caused by engine rpm as by engine load.

Whilst I can't check this myself, I find this surprising. 1100rpm is around normal tick over for an ICE with no load other than itself and ancillaries such as the alternator, water pump etc. If you are trying to Charge at the same time surely the engine needs to run faster to produce the surplus energy :?

 

[anko]

RPM and load are two different things. When you load the engine to 100% at 1100 RPM you get plenty of surplus power to charge our battery in 30 minutes or so. As a matter of fact, I believe the engine load is limited to about 75% under these conditions.

 

[PeterGalbavy]

As the owner of a 3h and not yet had a cold morning, I am curious how the ICE will behave with a fully charged battery but a cold / frosty car. Anyone got experience of this?

 

[maby]

As the owner of a 3h and not yet had a cold morning, I am curious how the ICE will behave with a fully charged battery but a cold / frosty car. Anyone got experience of this?

If you turn the heating on, the engine will start in order to generate heat. The GX4 with its electric heater will reduce the probability of the engine starting, but by no means eliminate it.

 

[jaapv]

But preheating it will reduce the running of the ICE significantly.

 

[greendwarf]

RPM and load are two different things. When you load the engine to 100% at 1100 RPM you get plenty of surplus power to charge our battery in 30 minutes or so. As a matter of fact, I believe the engine load is limited to about 75% under these conditions.

Yes, I appreciate that normally load & RPM aren't the same e.g. driving up hill increases the load but may actually reduce the RPM depending on the amount of fuel being burnt. However, I have assumed that the ICE drives the charging mechanism mechanically i.e. electric output is related to engine speed. am I wrong?

 

[anko]

Ah, I understand. Yes, I believe you got it partially wrong. There is a relation, but it is not a 1-on-1 relation.

Easy approach: If it was a 1-on-1 relation, in parallel mode charging current would increase with speed. But the faster you drive, the more power is needed for driving and the less power is available for charging.

Looking at it the other way around: for the E-motors, there is also no 1-on-1 relationship between power fed into the motor and motor RPM. And when the E-motors are used for regen breaking, the regen current depends not only on speed, but also on B-level as well as SOC: at low speed you may get a higher regen current than at higher speed, depending on SOC and B-level.

Slightly more difficult approach (for me, that is :mrgreen: ): the generator control unit can manipulate the internal (electro magnetic) restistance of the generator. More resistance means more output at same RPM and more load on the engine that needs to provide these RPMs. I bet there is some technical person here that can explain how the generator is manipulated by the control unit to produce more output at the same RPM.

 

[greendwarf]

OK, Anko, a final throw (don't want to keep this going for ever) - even if the car can increase the electrical output without increasing RPM there must be an increase in full consumption.

So, to go back to OP - sitting in stationary and/or slow moving traffic in Charge mode will burn more petrol, increasing the exhaust heat with little air flow cooling, than doing this in a normal ICE car. Therefore more fumes :idea: So I still think my analogy of sitting in a normal car with the engine racing (i.e. increasing the load/fuel consumption) is valid.

 

[anko]

Greendwarf, I totally agree with that. My comment about the low RPMs was only meant as some extra information and was triggered by:

In the PHEV in Charge mode, this is not true - you could easily be sitting stationary for long periods with the engine running at a couple of thousand rpm - hence producing additional heat.

 

[rgilyead]

Well, I think the conclusion I draw from all your comments is - DON"T use "Charge" when stationary or in slow-moving traffic. It seems a shame that you can't use an important feature of the car when you have a chance to build up charge ready for more hilly terrain. Rather defeats the object of the button I would have thought.

 

[jaapv]

Well, I think the conclusion I draw from all your comments is - DON"T use "Charge" when stationary or in slow-moving traffic. It seems a shame that you can't use an important feature of the car when you have a chance to build up charge ready for more hilly terrain. Rather defeats the object of the button I would have thought.

That would not be my conclusion.

 

[anko]

That would not be my conclusion.

Same here. Many times you may not even notice it and when you do, the advantage of building up some charge may outweigh the disadvantage of the smell.

 

[rgilyead]

That would not be my conclusion.

Same here. Many times you may not even notice it and when you do, the advantage of building up some charge may outweigh the disadvantage of the smell.

"Disadvantage of the smell"!!!!! Did you actually read my first post, "The car immediately filled with exhaust fumes through the air vents and I could see the fumes billowing out from under the bonnet."? I seriously thought the car had caught fire! We contemplated bailing out but when I turned off the "Charge" button it all calmed down again. As I said, I won't be doing that again!

 

[anko]

That would not be my conclusion.

Same here. Many times you may not even notice it and when you do, the advantage of building up some charge may outweigh the disadvantage of the smell.

"Disadvantage of the smell"!!!!! Did you actually read my first post, "The car immediately filled with exhaust fumes through the air vents and I could see the fumes billowing out from under the bonnet."? I seriously thought the car had caught fire! We contemplated bailing out but when I turned off the "Charge" button it all calmed down again. As I said, I won't be doing that again!

I have read it. Based upon your own original post, I would have drawn the same conclusion as you did. Even without asking here. But I would not have drawn that same conclusion based upon the reactions you got.

I would have my car checked if I were you. AFAIK, nobody ever reported smoke coming out of the vents or from under the bonnet. Depending on your findings, your conclusion could be the proper one for your car. Until they fix whatever the problem might be.

 

[Neverfuel]

When it happened to me, the car was fairly new and it was the first time that the engine had been used in anger. After that I always switched charge off whilst I still had some air moving around the car so that it would cool down somewhat. I don't need to bother now as all the lubricants seem to have burned off - so no smell whatsoever.