Coasting ReGens

[kpetrov]

Note that the description about coasting compared to regeneration down hill appears to be incorrect.

If you descend a hill, one mile, on B5, you have covered one mile without using power and added range to the battery.

If you descend a hill, one mile, on B0, you have covered one my without using power and without added range to the battery.

The deal is your journey don't stop one mile in to the descent. The goal is to go as much further and possibly over the approaching hill with less energy so B0 is best unless one have to slowdown for any reasons.

LowOnCash is describing wide variety of vehicle usage and generalizing.
Coasting is more efficient but we can't coast all the time everywhere.

​

 

[Shervin]

In my opinion (as a senior robotics engineer), it would have been better if the manual B0 - B5 regen levels were replaced with a simple tilt-based regen. So that when you're fairly horizontal, it's using B0, and when you're going down a hill, it's using somewhere between B0 - B5 based on the car's tilt angle, in order to keep the car coasting at roughly the same speed. This way the driver doesn't need to worry about regen, it would just automatically become a useful thing in different terrain. When the driver wants to slow down such as to go slower down a hill or to come to a stop at a traffic light, the brake pedal already causes regen, it doesn't need the user to regularly select the amount of regen.

Anyway, a major selling point of this car is that it has so many features yet has a competitive price, so I can't complain too much about their design imperfections!

 

[kpetrov]

In my opinion (as a senior robotics engineer), it would have been better if the manual B0 - B5 regen levels were replaced with a simple tilt-based regen. So that when you're fairly horizontal, it's using B0, and when you're going down a hill, it's using somewhere between B0 - B5 based on the car's tilt angle, in order to keep the car coasting at roughly the same speed. This way the driver doesn't need to worry about regen, it would just automatically become a useful thing in different terrain. When the driver wants to slow down such as to go slower down a hill or to come to a stop at a traffic light, the brake pedal already causes regen, it doesn't need the user to regularly select the amount of regen.

Anyway, a major selling point of this car is that it has so many features yet has a competitive price, so I can't complain too much about their design imperfections!

This tilt based regen without Artificial Intelligence build in to the vehicle will be a joke.
BTW if you want your vehicle to keep coasting at roughly the same speed as you say just activate the cruise control. On a hilly terrain will waste the same amount of energy.

 

[littlescrote]

Using B5 does not prevent coasting and automatically use more energy! It all depends how you use your foot. It's very easy to coast when you want to coast but eventually you need to come to a stop and you either do it easily in B5 by lifting, or you move your foot to the brake pedal in B0. I know which one I prefer.

 

[Johny451]

The more you use regen - the less mileage you'll achieve from a battery charge

Wow. Exactly the opposite. I will point out that b5 is a little harsh for drivers behind you and there is no brake light warning (at least on the 2014).

 

[Stevepl11]

Except I'm talking about when I'm not running on the electric, gas, otherwise I wouldn't be talking about fuel efficiency. My driving and chargiing abilities are such that I am often running on gas. When I have my foot down on the accellerator, and the gas engine is humming, it works harder when in a higher paddle setting. Uses more gas.

I doubt you could make that determination but here's what I know.
When using Cruise control It Is B2 and cannot be EV
When in B0, you have the full range of accelerator pedal travel available to modulate the power applied like a normal car.
When in B5, a portion of that pedal travel is used to modulate the regenerative braking and the rest for applying power. The 'zero point being somewhere in between.
When using any other Bx setting that zero point is closer to the B0 setting. It's a progressive thing.

The upshot is, in higher Bx settings you have less control over the power applied so if your economy suffers it's because of you.

However you are partially correct. If you use B5 and are often relaxing your right foot pressuure therefore regen braking, then pressing again to make up speed you will consume more fuel. The more braking, then the more current through the regen action plus rectifiers plus battery charging and therefore more losses which needs to be made up for and more torque from the engine means more fuel used. This will be less so in B4,3,2,1,0 But there are times you will need to brake and regen is then based on braking effort until the hyraulics take over. So either way economy is really on you driving smoothly just like EVERY OTHER CAR ON THE ROAD

Also driving in B5 tends to magnify your variations in right foot pressure and make the ride more uncomfortable, kind of like those imbeciles who rest their left foot on the brake pedal.

 

[Stevepl11]

In my opinion (as a senior robotics engineer), it would have been better if the manual B0 - B5 regen levels were replaced with a simple tilt-based regen. So that when you're fairly horizontal, it's using B0, and when you're going down a hill, it's using somewhere between B0 - B5 based on the car's tilt angle, in order to keep the car coasting at roughly the same speed. This way the driver doesn't need to worry about regen, it would just automatically become a useful thing in different terrain. When the driver wants to slow down such as to go slower down a hill or to come to a stop at a traffic light, the brake pedal already causes regen, it doesn't need the user to regularly select the amount of regen.

Anyway, a major selling point of this car is that it has so many features yet has a competitive price, so I can't complain too much about their design imperfections!

Typical engineer trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist and failing to solve for an actual problem.

B0 on the flat? Are you joking?

So according to you the ideal scenario is a car that doesn't slow down when you lift your right foot even though you see traffic slowing let's say 200m ahead so you are now compelled to transfer to the brake and back to the accelerator as conditions change. I'd rather select an appropriate regen setting by my brain and hand controls and keep my right foot ready to modulate power and regen as needed. And drive so that emergency braking is not needed rather than anticipated.

 

[Kurt]

There is no "drag" in B5 unless your foot is off the pedal to request regen! As already said, the motors cannot do both acceleration and regen at the same time!

You are in agreement with me. Thank you. I have been trying to tell White Bear Mitsubishi service that there is a problem with my car in that the coasting regens, when driving on gasoline, do not recognize that I have my foot on the gas. It's got the regens on the whole time I'm driving down the highway with my foot on the gas pedal. Please don't tell me this is the way it is supposed to be, because that's crazy. But the guys in the servie department don't seem to understand what I'm talking about and don't really seem to understand how it works. So what do I do? Yes, I could take it to zero every time I start the engine, but I'd like to have them work when they should do regenerative braking, and don't like the bad gas mileage when I forget to change the default on my long drive to town.

 

[kpetrov]

You are in agreement with me. Thank you. I have been trying to tell White Bear Mitsubishi service that there is a problem with my car in that the coasting regens, when driving on gasoline, do not recognize that I have my foot on the gas. It's got the regens on the whole time I'm driving down the highway with my foot on the gas pedal. Please don't tell me this is the way it is supposed to be, because that's crazy. But the guys in the servie department don't seem to understand what I'm talking about and don't really seem to understand how it works. So what do I do? Yes, I could take it to zero every time I start the engine, but I'd like to have them work when they should do regenerative braking, and don't like the bad gas mileage when I forget to change the default on my long drive to town.

It is not only the guy in the service department don't seem to understand what you are talking about!
I don't understand as well but here is simple sketch showing how B settings are remapping the accelerator pedal.
If one set B to be more than 0 portion of accelerator pedal is becoming a regenerative brake pedal.

 

[littlescrote]

You are in agreement with me. Thank you. I have been trying to tell White Bear Mitsubishi service that there is a problem with my car in that the coasting regens, when driving on gasoline, do not recognize that I have my foot on the gas. It's got the regens on the whole time I'm driving down the highway with my foot on the gas pedal. Please don't tell me this is the way it is supposed to be, because that's crazy. But the guys in the servie department don't seem to understand what I'm talking about and don't really seem to understand how it works. So what do I do? Yes, I could take it to zero every time I start the engine, but I'd like to have them work when they should do regenerative braking, and don't like the bad gas mileage when I forget to change the default on my long drive to town.

I am not in agreement with you.

 

[Ecological]

B5 only makes sense for short trips in the city/town. For longer journeys, B0 is better. Of course, I play with the paddles to control speed on slopes and get back electricity but I mostly coast.

Despite my vehicle being 8 years old and done 43,000 miles, I still get 26 miles in the Summer and 20 miles on a cold winter's day. Travelling at 20 or 30mph is best [as in any car EV or Diesel]. I always coast as slowing the vehicle down either by Bo-B5 or braking wastes energy. Unfortunately there are obstructions, Pheasants, Traffic lights, Tail backs..and no matter how great the anticipation, you will eventually still have to slow down and brake without crashing. The best option would be to coast, and have such heightened anticipation that you never brake. There you are question answered, changing from one form of energy [Kinetic] to another is no good..so ideally let gravity and friction slow the vehicle down. However even with the greatest of anticipation, YOU HAVE TO BRAKE at some point. So do you choose brake of R0-R5? I have looked at the amount of charging, and R5, in you need to slow down quickly, and R5 would be preferred, as braking in the Outlander PHEV converts less than R5 which converts more. On a downhill, clear run, do not accelerate, do not use B5 or any regeneration...just let it roll. I am doing more than 32 miles...where the MPG is just --- which means that it is doing more than 99mpg. After around 35 miles, the MPG starts to record--90mpg.......88mpg.....and around 50mile run...it has dropped to 75mpg. 50 miles mind. Anything more than 100 miles run, drops the efficiency to 30mpg [without charging]. I do around 150 miles per week, and only have to top up unleaded petrol every six months or so [about 23 litres] that is provided I top the battery up every 32 miles.

 

[Ecological]

Despite my vehicle being 8 years old and done 43,000 miles, I still get 26 miles in the Summer and 20 miles on a cold winter's day. Travelling at 20 or 30mph is best [as in any car EV or Diesel]. I always coast as slowing the vehicle down either by Bo-B5 or braking wastes energy. Unfortunately there are obstructions, Pheasants, Traffic lights, Tail backs..and no matter how great the anticipation, you will eventually still have to slow down and brake without crashing. The best option would be to coast, and have such heightened anticipation that you never brake. There you are question answered, changing from one form of energy [Kinetic] to another is no good..so ideally let gravity and friction slow the vehicle down. However even with the greatest of anticipation, YOU HAVE TO BRAKE at some point. So do you choose brake of R0-R5? I have looked at the amount of charging, and R5, in you need to slow down quickly, and R5 would be preferred, as braking in the Outlander PHEV converts less than R5 which converts more. On a downhill, clear run, do not accelerate, do not use B5 or any regeneration...just let it roll. I am doing more than 32 miles...where the MPG is just --- which means that it is doing more than 99mpg. After around 35 miles, the MPG starts to record--90mpg.......88mpg.....and around 50mile run...it has dropped to 75mpg. 50 miles mind. Anything more than 100 miles run, drops the efficiency to 30mpg [without charging]. I do around 150 miles per week, and only have to top up unleaded petrol every six months or so [about 23 litres] that is provided I top the battery up every 32 miles.

 

[Ecological]

The deal is your journey don't stop one mile in to the descent. The goal is to go as much further and possibly over the approaching hill with less energy so B0 is best unless one have to slowdown for any reasons.

LowOnCash is describing wide variety of vehicle usage and generalizing.
Coasting is more efficient but we can't coast all the time everywhere.

​

I cannot agree with you more....so on a more complicated and complex analysis..............Despite my vehicle being 8 years old and done 43,000 miles, I still get 26 miles in the Summer and 20 miles on a cold winter's day. Travelling at 20 or 30mph is best [as in any car EV or Diesel]. I always coast as slowing the vehicle down either by Bo-B5 or braking wastes energy. Unfortunately there are obstructions, Pheasants, Traffic lights, Tail backs..and no matter how great the anticipation, you will eventually still have to slow down and brake without crashing. The best option would be to coast, and have such heightened anticipation that you never brake. There you are question answered, changing from one form of energy [Kinetic] to another is no good..so ideally let gravity and friction slow the vehicle down. However even with the greatest of anticipation, YOU HAVE TO BRAKE at some point. So do you choose brake of R0-R5? I have looked at the amount of charging, and R5, in you need to slow down quickly, and R5 would be preferred, as braking in the Outlander PHEV converts less than R5 which converts more. On a downhill, clear run, do not accelerate, do not use B5 or any regeneration...just let it roll. I am doing more than 32 miles...where the MPG is just --- which means that it is doing more than 99mpg. After around 35 miles, the MPG starts to record--90mpg.......88mpg.....and around 50mile run...it has dropped to 75mpg. 50 miles mind. Anything more than 100 miles run, drops the efficiency to 30mpg [without charging]. I do around 150 miles per week, and only have to top up unleaded petrol every six months or so [about 23 litres] that is provided I top the battery up every 32 miles.

 

[Ecological]

I cannot agree with you more....so on a more complicated and complex analysis..............Despite my vehicle being 8 years old and done 43,000 miles, I still get 26 miles in the Summer and 20 miles on a cold winter's day. Travelling at 20 or 30mph is best [as in any car EV or Diesel]. I always coast as slowing the vehicle down either by Bo-B5 or braking wastes energy. Unfortunately there are obstructions, Pheasants, Traffic lights, Tail backs..and no matter how great the anticipation, you will eventually still have to slow down and brake without crashing. The best option would be to coast, and have such heightened anticipation that you never brake. There you are question answered, changing from one form of energy [Kinetic] to another is no good..so ideally let gravity and friction slow the vehicle down. However even with the greatest of anticipation, YOU HAVE TO BRAKE at some point. So do you choose brake of R0-R5? I have looked at the amount of charging, and R5, in you need to slow down quickly, and R5 would be preferred, as braking in the Outlander PHEV converts less than R5 which converts more. On a downhill, clear run, do not accelerate, do not use B5 or any regeneration...just let it roll. I am doing more than 32 miles...where the MPG is just --- which means that it is doing more than 99mpg. After around 35 miles, the MPG starts to record--90mpg.......88mpg.....and around 50mile run...it has dropped to 75mpg. 50 miles mind. Anything more than 100 miles run, drops the efficiency to 30mpg [without charging]. I do around 150 miles per week, and only have to top up unleaded petrol every six months or so [about 23 litres] that is provided I top the battery up every 32 miles.

Correction B0 means coasting...so as above.....save for B0..always keep it on B0 AND DO NOT BRAKE....unless you are going to crash!!!!!!

 

[michael8554]

The PHEV will coast with B0 on surprisingly gentle slopes. Increase the B setting to maintain the desired speed on steep descents, to get some regen.

 

[BobK]

On my 2023, I can see a fair amount of regenerative braking happen on the green graph when I use the brake pedal while driving in the 2 or less regen settings. The brake pedal appears to use regenerative braking first, then the brake pads second when more stopping power is needed or the battery can't absorb the energy.
So I try to first coast as much as possible, but apply the brake pedal early and moderately. This way I believe I am maximising the use of regenerative braking for as long as possible until using the disk brakes is unavoidable. This is assuming the green graph accurately monitors how succesfully I am maximizing the regen. I figure when the graph decreases while I'm still pressing on the pedal, it means the car is starting to favour the disk brakes over regen.
This way of stopping seems to me the ideal mix since you can quickly alter the regen depending on the circumstance. However, I find I am tending to use 2 over 0 just because it means I spend less time riding the brake on mild downhills. Does anyone have more knowledge or opinions on this?

 

[kpetrov]

On my 2023, I can see a fair amount of regenerative braking happen on the green graph when I use the brake pedal while driving in the 2 or less regen settings. The brake pedal appears to use regenerative braking first, then the brake pads second when more stopping power is needed or the battery can't absorb the energy.
So I try to first coast as much as possible, but apply the brake pedal early and moderately. This way I believe I am maximising the use of regenerative braking for as long as possible until using the disk brakes is unavoidable. This is assuming the green graph accurately monitors how succesfully I am maximizing the regen. I figure when the graph decreases while I'm still pressing on the pedal, it means the car is starting to favour the disk brakes over regen.
This way of stopping seems to me the ideal mix since you can quickly alter the regen depending on the circumstance. However, I find I am tending to use 2 over 0 just because it means I spend less time riding the brake on mild downhills. Does anyone have more knowledge or opinions on this?

Basically it is how you describe it. The break pedal uses regen first then the brake-pads, but probably it mixes it a bit while B settings will use regen exclusively without the possibility to mix it with friction brake.

 

[littlescrote]

On my 2023, I can see a fair amount of regenerative braking happen on the green graph when I use the brake pedal while driving in the 2 or less regen settings. The brake pedal appears to use regenerative braking first, then the brake pads second when more stopping power is needed or the battery can't absorb the energy.
So I try to first coast as much as possible, but apply the brake pedal early and moderately. This way I believe I am maximising the use of regenerative braking for as long as possible until using the disk brakes is unavoidable. This is assuming the green graph accurately monitors how succesfully I am maximizing the regen. I figure when the graph decreases while I'm still pressing on the pedal, it means the car is starting to favour the disk brakes over regen.
This way of stopping seems to me the ideal mix since you can quickly alter the regen depending on the circumstance. However, I find I am tending to use 2 over 0 just because it means I spend less time riding the brake on mild downhills. Does anyone have more knowledge or opinions on this?

That is indeed how it works.

I don't do that as I prefer to do it all through one pedal. Why wouldn't you, when the exact same behaviour can be achieved?

 

[BobK]

That is indeed how it works.

I don't do that as I prefer to do it all through one pedal. Why wouldn't you, when the exact same behaviour can be

That is indeed how it works.

I don't do that as I prefer to do it all through one pedal. Why wouldn't you, when the exact same behaviour can be achieved?

I find the behaviours different in practice. For me, driving in one pedal mode or at a higher B rating seems to demand more pedal force and a lot more attention to coast for long distances without either regenerating or powering. I enjoy driving the car in this mode, but I find I don’t coast much. At the lower B settings I find the car is often coasting for long distances without me thinking about it. From other comments, I gather maximizing coasting is the most energy efficient way to run the car, so this is why I’m now trying to do it as much as possible. However, my take on the easiest way to maximize coasting may be peculiar to my own poor muscle coordination.

 

[littlescrote]

I find the behaviours different in practice. For me, driving in one pedal mode or at a higher B rating seems to demand more pedal force and a lot more attention to coast for long distances without either regenerating or powering. I enjoy driving the car in this mode, but I find I don’t coast much. At the lower B settings I find the car is often coasting for long distances without me thinking about it. From other comments, I gather maximizing coasting is the most energy efficient way to run the car, so this is why I’m now trying to do it as much as possible. However, my take on the easiest way to maximize coasting may be peculiar to my own poor muscle coordination.

No, you're right. Getting coasting bang on is not that easy, but a tiny bit of regen or power addition around that point is worth the penalty for the ease to me.