PHEV Watchdog for all.

[elm70]

There is a strange AC/DC element instead .. in kAh .. which is not shown in my case

In the settings page, you can make the menu bar "hideable" via swiping up/down. When you do so, and hide the bar, you will see captions. When you do not swipe up or do not use the setting, you don't see it.

Possibly my typo did make my message unreadable.

There is no more the number of charges and total amount of charge cycle with the configurable length in hours.

Instead there is

AC/DC + DC/DC + Usage

All are in kAh

I guess the old value are gone ... and still I don't understand what is the meaning of the kAh for AC/DC / DC?DC and Usage

Knowing how many times the car has been charged, and the total hours of charging time .. it was an important information for inspect 2nd hand PHEV ... but .. maybe there is some relation with these kAh values ... but ... something I bet is missing ..like the old charging times counter

 

[anko]

Possibly my typo did make my message unreadable.

Ah, yes. I see now.

what is the meaning of the kAh for AC/DC / DC?DC and Usage

Accumulated Ah added to the battery during AC charging, Accumulated Ah added to the battery during DC charging, Accumulated Ah added + removed during normal usage (driving, heating, ...)

Knowing how many times the car has been charged, and the total hours of charging time .. it was an important information for inspect 2nd hand PHEV ... but .. maybe there is some relation with these kAh values ... but ... something I bet is missing ..like the old charging times counter

I think the new numbers are more relevant than the old numbers. Every time you plug in, charge count is incremented 1 regardless of length of session. Charge duration ignores the difference between 6 or 16 amps charging. And so on.

 

[elm70]

Thanks Anko.

My "dog" report me
AC/DC -> 16kAh
DC/DC -> 0
Usage -> 113kAh

So ... it means my car got fully charge around 620 times ... 16kAh / 26Ah for a full charge .. more or less the number of full charge I had before

Chademo was never used on my car (also by previous owner, based on this number)

113kAh usage at ~66Ah per 100km ... make 172k km ... which is much more then reality .. especially I would have expect lot of km done in ICE ... so ... I bet pure EV driving only 70% of my total 140k km .. so less then 100k km should have been done in pure EV mode .. which would implies 113Ah per 100km ... which is over 33kwh per 100km ... or 24kwh per 100km (but this would exclude the ICE in parallel mode)

PS: Anybody knows if these number are read directly from the car, or are some post processing numbers based on multiple raw data ?

 

[elm70]

What I'm missing ...

Are the trips with 0 distance

I like to store the stats of the battery without moving the car, for check the voltage bounce back, and the computed estimated capacity in Ah after the famous 2h rest

Without having these 0km trips stored ... these statistic are lost, and as well the real stationary charge that the dog try to compute become less useful

I'm quite sure 0km trips could have been stored with the dog before 0.9 version.

PS: What is nice in the latest version is the autostart ... very convenient in the car ... still .. it add some "freeze/delay" when the dog is used outside the car for check the history ...

 

[anko]

113kAh usage at ~66Ah per 100km ... make 172k km ... which is much more then reality .. especially I would have expect lot of km done in ICE ... so ... I bet pure EV driving only 70% of my total 140k km .. so less then 100k km should have been done in pure EV mode .. which would implies 113Ah per 100km ... which is over 33kwh per 100km ... or 24kwh per 100km (but this would exclude the ICE in parallel mode)

Charge + Discharge. So, divide by 2 to start with (if you hadn't already)

 

[elm70]

113kAh usage at ~66Ah per 100km ... make 172k km ... which is much more then reality .. especially I would have expect lot of km done in ICE ... so ... I bet pure EV driving only 70% of my total 140k km .. so less then 100k km should have been done in pure EV mode .. which would implies 113Ah per 100km ... which is over 33kwh per 100km ... or 24kwh per 100km (but this would exclude the ICE in parallel mode)

Charge + Discharge. So, divide by 2 to start with (if you hadn't already)

What I need to divide by 2 .. and why.

Charge + Discharge ... why I should add charged with discharged ?

For know average consumption using EV .. it should be : usage / km ... that in my case is looking 80Ah per 100km ...which sounds a very big number even assuming the car as all time driving in EV mode (series mode is like in EV mode .. but parallel mode the car should use way less Ah)

PS: Anybody willing to share these new numbers from the dog .. together with the odometer :?:

 

[anko]

Charge + Discharge ... why I should add charged with discharged ?

The Usage param IS Charge + Discharge: how much Ah have gone into and out off the battery. Ideally, Charge and Discharge are the same, so by dividing the number by 2 you get Charge Ah (and Discharge Ah).

 

[GreyBigFoot]

As Anko said.

Usage is the total amount of energy going in +out, so dividing by 2 you'll get a very approximate value of the total charging.

Previous totals of charging time/count where only AC/DC related and very inaccurate (wouldn't take in account the charging current) .

The new values are precise and accurate and are completely representative of the battery usage.

 

[elm70]

As Anko said.

Usage is the total amount of energy going in +out, so dividing by 2 you'll get a very approximate value of the total charging.

Previous totals of charging time/count where only AC/DC related and very inaccurate (wouldn't take in account the charging current) .

The new values are precise and accurate and are completely representative of the battery usage.

Yes .. I did see in the facebook page that USAGE is "defined" as charge + discharge ...

Personally if the context is a battery, the battery usage is only to discharge it ... the charging process is not a usage of the battery, it is a necessity ... like consider the fuel used by the car .. nobody will consider the fuel that people put in at the tank station , and then add to the fuel burn by the ICE for call this total the fuel usage ... only the fuel burned in a ICE is consider usage.

Anyhow ... it is a detail.

I also agree that the new counter for total AC/DC is an improvement. even if .. having 2 digits only and being in kAh .. is a but reductive ... I would prefer to see this more prevision .. it would be nice to correlate this counter with the MMCS charging cost .. this would show the energy lost in the charging process

Anyhow ... super work done on your apps ... it is evolving nicely ... :ugeek:

 

[elm70]

Question:

What is the meaning of the color code in the battery condition ?

I have red, blue (dark & light), green (different shades) .. yes .. I can understand some are due to SOH only .. and some are due to "strange" SOC.

My last card is a strange SOC, that is red, stating that my battery was charge up to 34.7Ah ... with only 4.08v .. still 34.7 is above my PHEV SOH which is 34.0Ah

Few days ago I got a blue SOC car, for a partial charge of just 8.2Ah .. no idea what is the meaning of this

Almost 3 months ago I got another red, stating 98.8% 33.8Ah .. 4.092:4.095 .. and few days after SOH drop from 34.2Ah down to 34.1

Mainly ... what is the difference between red and blue ... I guess a red card is "bad" ... so .. maybe soon my SOH will go further down. :roll:

 

[GreyBigFoot]

@elm70:

Zero kms trips are not stored into the database because they are essentially a waste of info (most of trips information is missing).

If you wish to see the precise value of AC/DC, DC/DC and usage, tap the latest battery card in the battery condition list, it's there.

A BMU reset will reset values also, so these are good up to the latest BMU reset.

About cards.

Green: capacity changes.
Red: maximum SoC observed (between capacity changes).
Blue: minimum SoC observed (between capacity changes).
Yellow: DBCAM result.

 

[elm70]

Thanks GreyBigFoot,

It would be nice to store the Pack information also in each Trip ... as well, I would really appreciate a trip record is created every time I start the application, independently if I move my car or not.

Anyhow ... I did find something very interesting, using the SOC battery "cards" .. which it store automatically the best and worst SOC.

So .. I did delete all of these in my history ... and then I did start the DOG before and after a charging process.

What I can see, that before start charging the car, the battery was reported to have 10.0Ah SOC .. after the charging process (which got aborted on the final phase, so not 100% completed( .. SOC is reported as 33.5Ah .. interesting enough the counter for charge AC/DC charge move up to only +20 (so 3.5 less) .. while the total usage jump by 24

SOC : from 10.0Ah to 33.5Ah
Voltage from 306.3V to 327.1v (3.829 to 4.089v per cell)
From : 16512 / 114084
To : 16532 (+20) / 114108 (+24)

So .. per these number potentially I have 3Ah less capacity then what SOH is reporting.

I'm surprise that despite this evidence, and the continuous report of capacity lost when car is left parked .. my SOH is not updated since 35 days ...

Based from what I can see, it is also looking like that the new firmware which I got few days ago in my car (before it was a very very old firmware ), does not charge up to 4.10v as it was visible in the past .. instead I believe the charging process stop at 4.09v ... my battery was quite good on keep a lot of extra Ah between 4.09 and 4.10 ... since the parking rest after a short trip from fully charged, was reported with a gain of 1.5Ah ... that means my pack was storing 1.5Ah more then expected at the high state of charge ...

So ... with the new firmware I feel I lost 1.5Ah .. that is around 5% of range

Plus .. in this condition my battery is more 31.0Ah then 34Ah .. so ... making my car a poor 82% SOH ... in line with most of the other PHEV from same age

PS: I'm afraid the next SOH change will be with a 0.5Ah reduction

EDIT: Ups .. I did smash my nose in the morning .. so ... I was still a bit confused with numbers when I posted numbers here .. :?

 

[anko]

What I can see, that before start charging the car, the battery was reported to have 10.0Ah SOC .. after the charging process (which got aborted on the final phase, so not 100% completed( .. SOC is reported as 33.5Ah .. interesting enough the counter for charge AC/DC charge move up to only +30 (so 3.5 less) .. while the total usage jump up of only 24

As the car reports AC and DC charging separately, could it be the AC number is 'before AC/DC conversion losses'? Or related to 240 volt instead of roughly 300 volt?

I know the below is not strictly valid, but still:

30 Ah * 240 v = 7.2 kWh.
7.2 kWh / 300 v = 24 Ah.

 

[elm70]

What I can see, that before start charging the car, the battery was reported to have 10.0Ah SOC .. after the charging process (which got aborted on the final phase, so not 100% completed( .. SOC is reported as 33.5Ah .. interesting enough the counter for charge AC/DC charge move up to only +30 (so 3.5 less) .. while the total usage jump up of only 24

As the car reports AC and DC charging separately, could it be the AC number is 'before AC/DC conversion losses'? Or related to 240 volt instead of roughly 300 volt?

I know the below is not strictly valid, but still:

30 Ah * 240 v = 7.2 kWh.
7.2 kWh / 300 v = 24 Ah.

Sorry ... my very bad math posted above .. now I did corrected it.

20Ah is the jump on charging ... 24Ah is the jump in usage ... 23.5Ah is the jump on SOC

Maybe is just due to approximation

I have no idea which data and computation is behind these numbers.

Anyhow .. by deleting the cards of max and min SOC ... the DOG can make a nice pair of SOC cards that may tell some story about what did happen in the car before and after charged ...

 

[elm70]

Some more info from the SOC cards ...

I got a new SOC card on the next day, after a full charge (this time was not truncated due to my timer switch) ...

Per the MMCS both charges have been 7.7Kwh

The first was from 10.0ah up to 33.5ah (327.1v)
The second was from 10.3ah up to 33.4ah (327.5v ... higher voltage but lower capacity :shock: ... but car was left 1h longer unused after charge)

New AC/DC counter is 16556 .. so .. a quite correct +24Ah

I guess this AC/DC counter has low granularity ... since every number I have seen so far is even ...

 

[GreyBigFoot]

New build available:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=phev.watchdog

+ Added support for new Capacity of MY2019
+ Added balanced %, maximum cell voltage difference, actual temperature difference to Battery Maps
+ Improved OBD2 command handling (average 10% gain of performance)
+ Cells temperature readings FIX for US/Canadian Models (was reporting wrongly)
+ Battery current FIX while coasting (reading was unstable)

http://phevwatchdog.net

 

[smokebeast]

Hi everyone

I will be getting my PHEV MY2019 soon and saw this app mentioned on a you tube video. I am an iOS user so I will need to get a cheap android phone to be able to use the app.

I can get hold of a Samsung galaxy s4 pretty cheap but this will only go to kitkat 4.4. The watchdog software will run on an older version of the OS but I was wondering if I should try and future proof myself abit and go for a different phone which will go to a higher version OS?

Thanks

 

[twosout]

Hi everyone

I will be getting my PHEV MY2019 soon and saw this app mentioned on a you tube video. I am an iOS user so I will need to get a cheap android phone to be able to use the app.

I can get hold of a Samsung galaxy s4 pretty cheap but this will only go to kitkat 4.4. The watchdog software will run on an older version of the OS but I was wondering if I should try and future proof myself abit and go for a different phone which will go to a higher version OS?

Thanks

How about Huawei Honor 7?

 

[twosout]

Hi
I’ve only just got my Outlander, so am new to this Watchdog and ODB stuff.
I bought an iCarsoft i620 Bluetooth dongle/device but do not seem to be getting a consistent connection into the ODB socket.
I believe the car needs to be ‘ON’ before anything will happen?
I find that I need to wriggle the device about in the socket before I get a red light and flash of blue. I don’t think I’ve seen the third light come on – what colour is it and what do the lights indicate, anyway?
I tried pushing the device in as far as it would go, but that did not help. Sadly, the contacts fail on a journey, so I’m not getting full trip information and I always need to ‘re-set’ it by the next one.
Is this a common problem? I wouldn’t have expected the insertion to have been a ‘skilled operation’, although its position is a little awkward/difficult to see.

 

[Tytalus]

Hi all! First post, 2nd hand MY19 4hs 2.4l being picked up Friday 8th, so I’m pre-newbie!

However, I have a question about the Watchdog and how it reports the battery charge so I can get my terms and assumptions calibrated. Any advice, especially from GreyBigFoot would be welcome.

The Watchdog reports both a State of Health, and a State of Charge. Leaving the SoH aside for the moment, let’s look at the Watchdog SoC (WSoC).

Does the WSoC match the Battery SoC (BSoC). My assumption was that it did, but I’m in discussions with our friendly German down-under that casts doubt on this.

My research to date indicates that EV manufacturers try and avoid deep Depth of Discarges to their batteries (both LiIon and NMH) as this greatly shortens their lives. Similarly I’ve seen that they try and avoid going above 80% SoC for the same reason, although they used to let the driver opt to charge more, maybe for a longer trip, but under an advisory.

Which brings me back to the PHEV and the Watchdog.

Is the WSoC the same as the BSoC? So if the WSoC shows 98%, this is 98% of what the battery can currently hold in its current SoH? Or is it showing 98% of some limit set by Mitsubishi? Say, a maximum of 80% or 90%?

And the same at the other end. I’ve seen vids where the ICE kicks in at about 30% WSoC, which is what is appropriate for an EVs BSoC. But I’ve been told that this is actually about 60% BSoC! Now you can see why I’m all confused...

Why is this important? I’ve driven Prius’s for 12 years now and know that the car-dashboard display is showing full battery at about 80%BSoC, and empty at 50% BSoC. The Watchdog is looking at the CAN bus data, so should be raw data, and now I’m in doubt. But I want to be sure I’m only charging to 80% of BSoC to avoid battery degradation, whatever is going on!

Thanks for your help in advance