relative costs of driving a PHEV

[gwatpe]

The merits of driving a PHEV with petrol, or electric, or hybrid from an economic perspective is a major reason we have a PHEV.

The absolute price of petrol and electricity will play a big part in the economics.

The price of petrol varies quite a bit with a weekly cycle, and electricity is sometimes free and other times may only be available on a day tariff.

When the price of electricity per kWh is 0.3 times the price of petrol per litre in the same money units, there is little difference in the economies of driving on electricity compared to petrol.

Some days, my calcs suggest only petrol should be used, and others, only electricity. Typically my PHEV returns 5-8c/km, or equivalent to the cost of 17ml of milk per kilometre. Even though my electricity is free, I still calculate costs based on if I had to buy electricity from the utility at the going rate I would have to pay.

What other price ratio have others found and the average running cost, factoring petrol and electricity?

 

[maby]

I think the overall balance is rather different in Europe - you guys seem to pay a lot for your electricity - or your petrol is very cheap.

Around here, 1KWh of electricity tends to cost the same as a hundred cc of petrol more or less - 10kwh costs more or less the same as a litre of petrol, but gives you a range equivalent to 2 or three litres - the balance would have to change a lot before the choice between the two became unclear.

 

[jaapv]

I'm not so sure - electricity is 5.5 cent per KWH plus 7 cent surcharge - makes 13.5 and petrol is around 1.50 Euro a litre. That appears to be approximately the same ratio. (Btw, milk is about 1.15 Euro a Litre )

 

[anko]

Wow, that sounds great. In the Netherlands I live in ( ), electricity is approx. 20 - 22 euro cents per kWh for home charging (variable cost only, so excluding connection fees) or 28 - 35 euro cents per kWh for public charging. For public charging, there is usually a 35 cent surcharge per session from the card issuer and there could be a surcharge from the charge point operator which could be up to 61 cents per session, if you happen to run into an "eLaad" operated charge point.

Worst case, you pay about 10 * 35 + 35 + 61 cents = EURO 4.46 euro for a full charge 'on the street' compared to 2.00 - 2.20 EURO at home. Only if you are lucky you can charge at a company that, thanks to high volume, pays a much lower kWh price and does not want to earn money on your charging.

Fast chargers are, apart from a few exception, way more expensive. Economically speaking, no point in visiting them.

 

[jaapv]

I live in the Netherlands, and that is what I pay with Nuon... OK, you add Energy Tax, but for me that is a business expense.
It is further complicated because we have daily charges and reductions as well.
Anyway:
Base price: 0.052921 / KWH
Energy Tax: 0.119495 /KWH
Storage Tax: 0.003477 /KWH
Reduction Energy Tax - 0.855836 /365 days

You figure it out...

 

[Pancake]

I have a company car, but because costs of driving are relevant for my company, they are for me too (indirectly).

I calculated a price per unit of 0,22 euro for electricity (1 Kwh) and 1,20 euro (without consumer tax) for petrol (1 litre), here in the Netherlands.

I estimated driving 11 kilometres on average per litre and 4,25 kilometres on average per KwH (I'm not sure if this is correct since I never fuelled / charged so far, please do comment!). Therefore the price per kilometre would be 0,10091 euro whilst running on petrol and 0,0518 euro when using electricity and charging at home. Driving on electricity is 50% cheaper, I guess. Off course I have to pay for an electrical infra-structure at home, but that's more an investment in my point of view.


Berekening brandstofkosten

Kilometers benzine 10000
Kilometers elektrisch 15000
Benzineprijs (ex BTW) € 1,20
Stroomprijs (KWH) € 0,22
Vast recht stroom € 250,00 Per jaar
Kilometers per liter: 11
Kilometers per KwH: 4,25
Prijs per kilometer (benzine): € 0,1091 per jaar
Prijs per kilometer (elektrisch): € 0,0518
Benzinekosten: € 1.090,91 Per jaar Per maand: € 90,91
Elektriciteitskosten: € 1.026,47 Per jaar Per maand: € 85,54
Totaal: € 2.117,38 Totaal: € 176,45

 

[Pancake]

I live in the Netherlands, and that is what I pay with Nuon...

Is it, really? :shock:

 

[jaapv]

Just copied the figures from my yearly statement.. It came in last week.

Sidenote: I am not able to reclaim consumer tax on petrol, so the ratio is more biased towards EV for me.

 

[anko]

OK, you add Energy Tax, but for me that is a business expense.

Meaning it does not add to the cost of driving? How does that work?

If you leave Energy Tax out of the equation, you might as well leave out 40+ percent 'Accijns' out of the petrol price. For fair comparison. But may I suggest we compare real prices, possible excl. VAT?

 

[jaapv]

No VAT compensation for me.. However, even if I calculate Anko'sway, I hardly get beyond 15 Eurocent/kWh. I think some enhancement of negotiation skills is needed...
(full disclosure, I employ a Polish lady to do the job for me.)

 

[westdevon]

In the UK we can get cut price overnight electricity called economy 7 at about 7 pence per kW. Petrol has just dropped to £1 per litre, so I get about 14 kw for the price of a litre, about 32 EV miles at this time of year. In gallons that's equivalent to about 145 mpg.

 

[HHL]

"When the price of electricity per kWh is 0.3 times the price of petrol per litre in the same money units, there is little difference in the economies of driving on electricity compared to petrol."

That is an excellent method to quickly calculate relative costs, just one question, what assumption did you make for petrol use (l/100).

 

[Regulo]

I'm paying 9.84 pence per kW, so about 10kW per £1 (the price per litre at present). 10kW will get me about 24 miles, so that's about 110 mpg (2.6 l/100). But in the summer, if I can charge in the day, my solar panels might provide half of that, effectively halving what I need to buy from the grid. And I can go a way further per kW in the warm weather (no headlights, heating, wipers). So how can you get an accurate figure? Unless you total every penny, every time you charge. And I can't be bothered, frankly.

 

[gwatpe]

"When the price of electricity per kWh is 0.3 times the price of petrol per litre in the same money units, there is little difference in the economies of driving on electricity compared to petrol."

That is an excellent method to quickly calculate relative costs, just one question, what assumption did you make for petrol use (l/100).

I use L/100km.

I have found that unless we can get a fast way of crunching the numbers, we tend to stop bothering to monitor how economically we are driving.

 

[anko]

However, even if I calculate Anko'sway, I hardly get beyond 15 Eurocent/kWh. I think some enhancement of negotiation skills is needed...

Just to make sure we are comparing apples to apples (or to oranges actually): Your total volume is over 10.000 kWh yearly, right?

 

[jaapv]

Not even close to that.

 

[anko]

In that case, your Polish lady should apply for a job at "Vereniging Eigen Huis", as she appears to be able to get a rate 20% lower than what they get (for a collective of thousands and thousands of households)

 

[jaapv]

I guess I'll hang on to her, yesterday a rep told me: "when you send her in, my budget is shot"
As for Eigen Huis - there was a consumer programme (I think it was Radar) lately that showed that it was more advantageous to do your own deal.

 

[gwatpe]

I feel a bit lonely buying about 700kWh/year from the utility. The more energy we consume from the grid, the higher the price we pay in AUS as a domestic customer.

 

[Carnut]

I pay12.59pence per Kwh. with NPower.
It is a 2.4 Kw draw to charge PHEV for 5 hours. (I have discounted the standing charge because I have to pay that anyway.)
SO........... 12.59X2.4X5(hours) =£1.5108.
If we say that we realistically get 22 Miles per charge 1.5108 divided by 22 =6.9 ppl
Petrol..... 99.9 ppl X 4.54596=£4.54 per gallon divided by 22 =20.6ppl.
So I reckon you would have to drop to about 3 miles per charge to be as expensive as petrol??? (is that right? sounds iffy to me)
NUFF SAID! (as long as I have my maths correct. ....I failed maths 'O'level 3 times, so don't count on it!