MadTechNutter
Well-known member
The discussion in the Lindqvist thread is getting a bit obscure when members start comparing the differences between the methods of these 'resets'.
Therefore I hope we can continue this here in a dedicated thread so all this information is accessible in one place for future reference.
So far in this forum I have found three DIY methods to 'recover' usable battery capacity:
BMU Smoothing - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3102
Triple Procedure - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4533
Lindqvist Method - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4534&start=130
Lindqvist does NOT work for me, period
It is a shame because I see from a hardware point of view that I am not doing anything wrong, that could void warranty.
The 12V battery can run empty at any time and it is not my problem if Mitsubishi's uses components that are not up to it and something changes in the collected battery data, if I decide to charge my car when the 12V battery voltage is very low and then drops further when some of the relays just barely manage to switch but after that the charger activates while the 12v battery was dead.
Triple Procedure requires I purchase and use software drivers from a third person, who I don't know and has no website with any description of their product, just a Russian pay me link with no reference to the product or buyers protection ... BIG RED FLAG for me!
Warranty would be void using this, pretty sure evidence of such a DIY intervention is easily discovered.
At this stage I am not going there.
Leaves me for now only the 'Smoothing', which is done solely(no mention of costly drivers) with Mitsubishi's MUT software that should be made available to every workshop, thus should not void warranty.
There is also a mention of a "capacity and control reset" on that thread, anybody done that lately?
I should have the required cable early next week and if this brings my 29Ah battery back to 33-34Ah, I might pass on the other methods as common sense tells me that a car that is nearly 5 years old with 60,000km on the clock realistically won't have much more.
If that didn't improve anything I am going to purchase a used Battery Management controller from the UK, what you guys call the BMU.
I say there are actually 10 BMUs in the battery pack and one Master Controller that talks to them.
Anyhow that little box behind the charger port(s), swap the plugs to it from my original controller BMU(obviously 12V is disconnected), plug in the charger, tap the 12V battery terminal for 3 seconds and hope to Lindqvist the hell out of that UK BMU box (that might have an old firmware or something different to it compared to my stubborn Australian one) before it even talks to my car.
Failing that I will then have to bite the bullet and purchase those mysterious drivers and try to Triple "reset" using the replacement BMU.
What I am trying to do is if this all does not work for me I can just plug back my original BMU as if 'nothing' happened
... or did it?
Question is where else could the battery data be stored?
Is anybody aware of the 10 BMUs in the battery pack?
I have seen them and they have big processors that could have non volatile memory storage too.
Please post your opinions about all these procedures.
It is OK to repeat some things that were said on the Lindqvist thread so we can have a summary of the differences in benefits and risks.
However the risk of over cycling the battery has already been discussed to death without any base or evidence that these procedures actually go much beyond the recommended range.
To me it makes no difference if a battery is used down to 30% or 20% SoC. I have 15 years of general Li-Ion battery experience from work that show even down to 10% won't result in less FULL cycles overall. If usage is terminated at 30% that is 0.7 cycles and is counted as such.
Yes they are not LEV40s or what ever is in the PHEV but I have not seen any other Li-Ion batteries that suddenly behave different.
As long as none of the procedures result in a charge over 4.10V I do not see a risk of accelerated degradation even if they are on their way out.
However I have seen it over and over that if batteries were charged only to 4.05V that their overall cycle life is extended.
If I were able to use the PHEV battery down to 20% and only charge to 90%, I am very willing to take that risk as my REAL SoH could be actually extended.
The problem with all these procedures is that they display a fake SoH, at least with older batteries.
Everybody seems to report that SoH drops rapidly after the procedure, it corrects itself one might say.
What I fail to find is feedback if it stabilised after a certain time and at what value, lets say after 3-6 months and if that value stayed higher than what was reported before the procedure.
So if you have some long term data after any of these 'reset' 'smoothing, DBCAM, etc procedures(Lindqvist is too early) please write this here too.
Thanks
your MadTechNutter
Therefore I hope we can continue this here in a dedicated thread so all this information is accessible in one place for future reference.
So far in this forum I have found three DIY methods to 'recover' usable battery capacity:
BMU Smoothing - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3102
Triple Procedure - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4533
Lindqvist Method - http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4534&start=130
Lindqvist does NOT work for me, period
It is a shame because I see from a hardware point of view that I am not doing anything wrong, that could void warranty.
The 12V battery can run empty at any time and it is not my problem if Mitsubishi's uses components that are not up to it and something changes in the collected battery data, if I decide to charge my car when the 12V battery voltage is very low and then drops further when some of the relays just barely manage to switch but after that the charger activates while the 12v battery was dead.
Triple Procedure requires I purchase and use software drivers from a third person, who I don't know and has no website with any description of their product, just a Russian pay me link with no reference to the product or buyers protection ... BIG RED FLAG for me!
Warranty would be void using this, pretty sure evidence of such a DIY intervention is easily discovered.
At this stage I am not going there.
Leaves me for now only the 'Smoothing', which is done solely(no mention of costly drivers) with Mitsubishi's MUT software that should be made available to every workshop, thus should not void warranty.
There is also a mention of a "capacity and control reset" on that thread, anybody done that lately?
I should have the required cable early next week and if this brings my 29Ah battery back to 33-34Ah, I might pass on the other methods as common sense tells me that a car that is nearly 5 years old with 60,000km on the clock realistically won't have much more.
If that didn't improve anything I am going to purchase a used Battery Management controller from the UK, what you guys call the BMU.
I say there are actually 10 BMUs in the battery pack and one Master Controller that talks to them.
Anyhow that little box behind the charger port(s), swap the plugs to it from my original controller BMU(obviously 12V is disconnected), plug in the charger, tap the 12V battery terminal for 3 seconds and hope to Lindqvist the hell out of that UK BMU box (that might have an old firmware or something different to it compared to my stubborn Australian one) before it even talks to my car.
Failing that I will then have to bite the bullet and purchase those mysterious drivers and try to Triple "reset" using the replacement BMU.
What I am trying to do is if this all does not work for me I can just plug back my original BMU as if 'nothing' happened
... or did it?
Question is where else could the battery data be stored?
Is anybody aware of the 10 BMUs in the battery pack?
I have seen them and they have big processors that could have non volatile memory storage too.
Please post your opinions about all these procedures.
It is OK to repeat some things that were said on the Lindqvist thread so we can have a summary of the differences in benefits and risks.
However the risk of over cycling the battery has already been discussed to death without any base or evidence that these procedures actually go much beyond the recommended range.
To me it makes no difference if a battery is used down to 30% or 20% SoC. I have 15 years of general Li-Ion battery experience from work that show even down to 10% won't result in less FULL cycles overall. If usage is terminated at 30% that is 0.7 cycles and is counted as such.
Yes they are not LEV40s or what ever is in the PHEV but I have not seen any other Li-Ion batteries that suddenly behave different.
As long as none of the procedures result in a charge over 4.10V I do not see a risk of accelerated degradation even if they are on their way out.
However I have seen it over and over that if batteries were charged only to 4.05V that their overall cycle life is extended.
If I were able to use the PHEV battery down to 20% and only charge to 90%, I am very willing to take that risk as my REAL SoH could be actually extended.
The problem with all these procedures is that they display a fake SoH, at least with older batteries.
Everybody seems to report that SoH drops rapidly after the procedure, it corrects itself one might say.
What I fail to find is feedback if it stabilised after a certain time and at what value, lets say after 3-6 months and if that value stayed higher than what was reported before the procedure.
So if you have some long term data after any of these 'reset' 'smoothing, DBCAM, etc procedures(Lindqvist is too early) please write this here too.
Thanks
your MadTechNutter