By -5C the PHEV is not a PHEV any more...

[jaapv]

:twisted: :twisted:

 

[anko]

BTW: This morning it was around +2 degrees. I had pre-heated twice and was able to set my heater to 19 degrees without the engine being started Didn't dare to go higher.

I drove 26 km pure EV that way. When I arrived at the office I had 1 km range left :|

 

[PolishPilot]

Update:

+5 in the garage, preheated, cabin set to 21C, outside temperature -2C.
Full battery, charged day before.

ICE turned on and kept running for app. 10km, 10 min., consumption 11l/100km
Later pure electric for 20km, consumption down to 3,7l/100km.
Back home after 2 hours in the cold, up to -1C, 30km on ICE,
result for the day: 4,9l/100km.

 

[PolishPilot]

Indeed, and the PHEV gives you just two pedals and a few buttons to operate it.
I bet you prefer to fly a Cessna Caravan over an Airbus 380... :lol:

I still love to use AP in an aircraft, as long as I can turn it off, when I wish.
I also would love to have ACC (which I don't), but I use normal CC as often as I can.

So there are still few more buttons in my PHEV.

But I still miss this small one: "Pure EV".

 

[anko]

BTW: This morning it was around +2 degrees. I had pre-heated twice and was able to set my heater to 19 degrees without the engine being started Didn't dare to go higher.

I drove 26 km pure EV that way. When I arrived at the office I had 1 km range left :|

This afternoon, on the way back it was between -2 and -1. No opportunity to charge. So, took off with nearly empty battery. Cranked up the heater, engine started. As expected. To my surprise, it didn't seem to charge. Blue energy flow arrow from engine to battery was not visible when the car was standing still. So, I tried to force Charge, because the engine was running anyway. Car didn't respond to Charge button, at all. Or Save button.

I thought, maybe the battery was too cold to be charged or something. Then it hit me. I had almost emptied my tank (filled up 3 km down the road: 42 liters). As you know, or may not know, the car will not go into Charge or Save mode when the tank is near empty. It insists on emptying the battery before emptying the rest of the full tank.

And what it looks like is that, on a near empty tank, it will not use the ICE for charging (or saving) the battery but will use the ICE for heating :shock:

 

[IgorTr]

It shoud be possible to install "Pure EV" button like in Prius to Prius-PHEV conversion kits
Just spoof temperature sensors to make the car think that its a summer.

Disclaimer: this would kill your battery, your ICE and probably you.
Don't do this at home

Tesla have a "save the battery" mode when parked in temperatures below -40C.
If charger is not connected, it will draw the battery to produce some heat inside it.
Of course, this will lower the range. Probaby to zero. After that the car will die,
battery replace will be need.

I hope that Mitsu also have this mode

There is no dedicated heater elements in battery - it could be heat up by charging or
discharging at low-to-med currents.

 

[PolishPilot]

...
There is no dedicated heater elements in battery - it could be heat up by charging or
discharging at low-to-med currents.

I also thought this is the case.
Another false information from a dealer claiming about a heater...

The internal resistance of a cold battery is so high,
that probably very low current is good enough
to heat it quite effectively.

 

[PolishPilot]

So after some more testing, I can correct the title of this thread:

By -5C the PHEV is not a PHEV any more...
...for the first 10km when preheated
and first 10 miles when cold.

 

[greendwarf]

Tesla have a "save the battery" mode when parked in temperatures below -40C.
If charger is not connected, it will draw the battery to produce some heat inside it.
Of course, this will lower the range. Probaby to zero. After that the car will die,
battery replace will be need.

I hope that Mitsu also have this mode

There is no dedicated heater elements in battery - it could be heat up by charging or
discharging at low-to-med currents.

So here is a question - if you leave the PHEV at the airport in winter while you fly off to the sun on holiday might the battery have died in the cold by the time you get back?

 

[CJ1045]

The batteries have their own cooler but not a heater:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7eAom9Hz_c2MUR4bUVIZFdWTmM/view?usp=sharing

CJ

 

[PolishPilot]

The batteries have their own cooler but not a heater:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7eAom9Hz_c2MUR4bUVIZFdWTmM/view?usp=sharing

CJ

Thanks, CJ.

great find.
It makes lot of matters clearer.

PP

 

[PolishPilot]

.. So here is a question - if you leave the PHEV at the airport in winter while you fly off to the sun on holiday might the battery have died in the cold by the time you get back?

The battery will hold charge, but may not wish to release it quickly.
The ICE will start, you can drive without problems and once
gradually warmed up the battery will start performing normally.

This is why I bought a PHEV, not a pure EV.

 

[IgorTr]

.. So here is a question - if you leave the PHEV at the airport in winter while you fly off to the sun on holiday might the battery have died in the cold by the time you get back?

Li battery would be irreversibly damaged if stay in very cold conditions (-40C). This happens if the electrolyte freezes.
Does not matter how long it exposed to cold condition. When electrolyte freezes - battery killed.
I don't know, does Mitsu PHEV have a emergnecy heating in this situation like Telsa, or not.

So, if you going to leave a car at cold parking it's better to have battery charged - this will low the point of freezing,
and, may be, give a power for self-heating.

 

[CJ1045]

The batteries have their own cooler but not a heater:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7eAom9Hz_c2MUR4bUVIZFdWTmM/view?usp=sharing

CJ

Thanks, CJ.

great find.
It makes lot of matters clearer.

PP

Not my find - it was from Chris who runs the Phev.club forum - should have given him a mention, sorry Chris!

 

[PolishPilot]

Not my find - it was from Chris who runs the Phev.club forum - should have given him a mention, sorry Chris!

Yes, Chris forum and especially his "blog" on Outlander PHEV are excelent.

His opinion on the topic of the thread here:

http://phev.club/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=176&sid=32926386d5f8800144b5648b817d5dc3

 

[Ozukus]

Another article on battery cooling etc.

http://www.mhi.co.jp/technology/review/pdf/e512/e512044.pdf

 

[PolishPilot]

I think, we forgot about another aspect of turning on the ICE:

ICE also punctually activated to keep catalytic converter in optimum condition

From the document below, page 5, bottom:

http://www.mitsubishi-outlander-phev.com/Documents/EN/01.Outlander%20PHEV_E.pdf

 

[Newspaperboy]

Not wanting to brag, and I'm still experimenting. However I took delivery of GX3h on Monday and after a couple of commutes to and from work at 70% EV managed today to get 100%

My commute is 7 mile, part motorway, then into centre of Glasgow. I'll also benefit from Free parking in Glasgow and Free charging. Used to spend £160 pcm on diesel.

 

[jdsx]

Not wanting to brag, and I'm still experimenting. However I took delivery of GX3h on Monday and after a couple of commutes to and from work at 70% EV managed today to get 100%

My commute is 7 mile, part motorway, then into centre of Glasgow. I'll also benefit from Free parking in Glasgow and Free charging. Used to spend £160 pcm on diesel.

Congrats Newspaperboy! Haven't seen you around Glasgow yet, I don't think! If you can still do 100%EV when it's down to 2degC or so, that'll be the time to brag! :lol:

 

[Newspaperboy]

Black GX3h regularly down at Crimea Street, or the Washington street car park. Soon to be parked in Cadogan Street once new charging cable arrives.