Complaining about fuel consumption.I just don't get it.

[Trex]

I come on here and still see people complaining about the fuel consumption of the PHEV in hybrid mode. I could have said "whinging" :mrgreen: but I will try to keep the Aussie sledging out of this. (See Mr greendwarf Sir. I am trying not to be some sort of uncivilised convict).

What are you comparing it to when you complain. Hopefully apples versus apples.

Is it a diesel, a Toyota Prius, another 4WD, another largish SUV, V8 ..... again, just what are you comparing it to?

I can get approx 7lts/100ks from my PHEV driving at our legal speed limits here of 100-110kph and that is pushing it to the max of slightly over the GPS speeds etc. and still keeping my license. My wife and sons still think I am a hoon. I blame my rally car driving dad. Even not trying I can get 8lts/100kms.

I think that is great fuel consumption for a approx 2 tonne, PETROL motor, 4wd with aerodynamics of a brick. Edit This is just a saying over here about all SUV, vans etc

What am I comparing it to? Not my PETROL motor ex Prius but bloody hell how could I? 2wd, smaller car with good aerodynamics 5lts/100kms. Not my ex DIESEL powered Mitsubishi Pajero. Same weight roughly but no approx 200kg of drive battery and it got approx 11lts/100km. Not my Toyota Camry PETROL hybrid that my son drives approx 6lts/100kms but again 2wd, smaller and reasonable aerodynamics and cannot be plugged into the grid.

So can I compare it to my late 90s BMW 5 series PETROL powered saloon car. 2wd, lighter, smaller, more aerodynamic and approx 9.5Lts/100kms. But at the time that fuel consumption I thought was bloody great. Probably should not compare it.

Pehaps I can compare it to another car that does not have that heavy drive battery to cart around so we can plug into the grid. But to me that would be unfair.

Or perhaps :idea: I can compare it to the lot of them and consider it still pretty bloody good.

So what are you complainers comparing it to?

Ok, just let me get my flame retardant suit on.

Done it. So go for it.

FLAME ON. :lol:

Or someone will probably say "I just don't get it", like my sons sometimes, because I am too bloody old.:roll: :lol:

Edit change name of topic to make the thread more relevant for searching etc.

 

[anko]

Morning Trex (or is it afternoon),

I appreciate what you are doing here, and agree with you (as always) for most of it. Except for one thing:

Where size, space, 4WD, battery weight, and some other aspects, are valid excuses for not scoring the very best notes on economy, aerodynamics is not. As they had control over that, even given size, space, etc. They could have done better in that area, without compromising in other area's. When judging just the drive train then bad aerodynamics is a valid excuse. When looking at the car as a whole, it is not.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the car needs excuses as I believe it is doing fairly well. But it could have done better.

Cheers,

Anko

 

[HappyHeyoka]

II can get approx 7lts/100ks from my PHEV driving at our legal speed limits here of 100-110kph and that is pushing it to the max of slightly over the GPS speeds etc. and still keeping my license. My wife and sons still think I am a hoon. I blame my rally car driving dad. Even not trying I can get 8lts/100kms.

Well, I'm right there with you; pretty often do a 2 hour 40 min drive of around 220km with city traffic either end for which I usually come in around 6.7 or 6.9 l/100km.

Yesterday I got my _worst_ ever on that trip of 8.5 l/100km, but it was 38 degrees C, I got stuck at roadworks for half an hour with the aircon on and put it in charge mode and forgot about it for about half the rest of the trip (head somewhere else).

I know people with similar sized cars with a V6 that come in somewhere around 8-11 l/100km; I'm not exactly light footed on the freeway... but only slightly over ;-)
I have a friend who has a tiny Honda three door thing gets 6 l/100km on that trip.
Overall I think the PHEV does great.

And yes, Anko, it could be better; as much as I love my car, it's pretty butt ugly. But I suspect being able to use the "standard" Outlander parts bin makes a big difference in the price.

 

[MikkB]

Morning guys (in the UK),

Interesting comments. I confess I'm pretty ignorant about car aerodynamics, but looking at the shape of the PHEV I wouldn't have thought it was too bad for an SUV. So I'm wondering why you would classify it as a 'brick'?

So my question to you learned gentlemen is; Is there a standard measure of car aerodynamic performance (some sort of overall coefficient I would imagine), is it published for different vehicles, and how then does the PHEV compare to other similar vehicles?

For the record, I am not complaining about the fuel consumption of my PHEV, which when you look at the overall picture I think is pretty good. I think those that are dissatisfied have generally not considered fully whether this vehicle is suitable for their driving needs.

Cheers,

Mikk

 

[MikkB]

[it's pretty butt ugly.

I gotta disagree with you there mate, I think its a beautiful car

 

[HappyHeyoka]

[it's pretty butt ugly.

I gotta disagree with you there mate, I think its a beautiful car

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty enough for an "SUV", but looks aren't really why I bought it...

oh, and the Cd for the Outlander is supposed to be around 0.33 according to Wikipedia; for comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient#Typical_drag_coefficients

 

[MikkB]

[it's pretty butt ugly.

I gotta disagree with you there mate, I think its a beautiful car

Don't get me wrong, it's pretty enough for an "SUV", but looks aren't really why I bought it...

oh, and the Cd for the Outlander is supposed to be around 0.33 according to Wikipedia; for comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient#Typical_drag_coefficients

Thanks, for the link, very interesting. Looking at that list I'd say we are not in 'brick' territory at 0.33.

 

[EchoVictor]

The 0.33 coefficient of drag is only part of the story though as to obtain a measurement of aerodynamic drag which needs to be overcome you need to multiply the Cd by the frontal area. This is where an SUV falls down!

 

[MikkB]

The 0.33 coefficient of drag is only part of the story though as to obtain a measurement of aerodynamic drag which needs to be overcome you need to multiply the Cd by the frontal area. This is where an SUV falls down!

Yes, so I see, good shout. However still I think the PHEV compares well to other similar (SUV) vehicles by the look of it.

 

[Tipper]

I think the economy issue in the UK and maybe other areas of Europe is that the take up of the PHEV is mostly by company car drivers who, in addition to paying very little tax on the benefit of being 'given' a £40k car to run around in, also want diesel BMW and Audi economy and all electric mileage provided by work based chargers!

They need to get back in the real world and buy a car themselves and fund its fuel, care and running costs! :shock:

And yes I bought and run my own car which is currently averaging around 70 mpg over the last two years or so. I'm more than happy with that as it's much better than my previous BMW diesel and doesn't suffer the aggressive behaviour of other drivers towards the BMW.

 

[anko]

... also want diesel BMW and Audi economy and all electric mileage provided by work based chargers!

I think we can be much more positive than this. With my PHEV I achieve 76 MPG, including 10% kms done while towing a caravan. I don't see a any BMW or Audi Diesel achieve that

 

[user 1877]

Thanks, for the link, very interesting. Looking at that list I'd say we are not in 'brick' territory at 0.33.

My previous chariot was a Landrover Discovery 3. Now that was a car with the aerodynamics of a brick and fuel consumption to match. If the Cd of 0.33 is correct for the PHEV then it’s very good.

I suspect the use of the “brick” analogy comes from the RAF where the aerodynamics of various fast jet aircraft were summarised as “it glides like a brick”.

 

[anko]

I suspect the use of the “brick” analogy comes from the RAF where the aerodynamics of various fast jet aircraft were summarised as “it glides like a brick”.

We have (the Dutch version of) that saying, but we do not have the RAF ;-)

 

[Hypermiler]

Absolutely right Tipper.
Trex I am also sick of people expecting the car to defy laws of physics, sprout wings or grow a magic horn. I don’t really mean anyone on here I dont think... probably more on Facebook or in reviews.

As an aside there was a very heated discussion on our other pure ev car fb page - someone bought one and was disappointed with range when hammering down motorway in winter. They gave it a completely unreasonable roasting - expected miracles too. Grrr.
H

 

[user 816]

I see Whatcar magazine have just given their car of the year award to the new Volvo XC40 which is about Qashqai size. They reported a combined fuel consumption from its 2.0L diesel on test of 35 mpg!

Well usually I can do better than that in my much bigger PHEV running on slightly cheaper petrol and carrying around a big battery.

 

[user 1877]

We have (the Dutch version of) that saying, but we do not have the RAF ;-)

But you do have the RNLAF (KLu)

 

[greendwarf]

In 50 years of driving the PHEV is the first car I've had to do better than 25mpg and the last was an Avensis 2.0 Estate I'd had from new. Not that I've bothered to check that often, as once I've paid to fill them up the money's spent as far as I'm concerned. :lol:

 

[Trex]

Morning Trex (or is it afternoon),

I appreciate what you are doing here, and agree with you (as always) for most of it. Except for one thing:

Where size, space, 4WD, battery weight, and some other aspects, are valid excuses for not scoring the very best notes on economy, aerodynamics is not. As they had control over that, even given size, space, etc. They could have done better in that area, without compromising in other area's. When judging just the drive train then bad aerodynamics is a valid excuse. When looking at the car as a whole, it is not.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the car needs excuses as I believe it is doing fairly well. But it could have done better.

Cheers,

Anko

Gday Anko,

It would be no fun if we agreed all the time.

But when I said the PHEV has bad aerodynamics I mean all SUV type cars have comparatively bad aerodynamics. That is compared to a smaller car like the Prius which I think has exceptional aerodynamics for a production car. My old one even had plastic "plates" that ran under the Prius for aerodynamic reasons.

I do not think the PHEV is any worse than most SUVs but I am happy to be corrected.

Regards Trex.

 

[Trex]

II can get approx 7lts/100ks from my PHEV driving at our legal speed limits here of 100-110kph and that is pushing it to the max of slightly over the GPS speeds etc. and still keeping my license. My wife and sons still think I am a hoon. I blame my rally car driving dad. Even not trying I can get 8lts/100kms.

Well, I'm right there with you; pretty often do a 2 hour 40 min drive of around 220km with city traffic either end for which I usually come in around 6.7 or 6.9 l/100km.

Yesterday I got my _worst_ ever on that trip of 8.5 l/100km, but it was 38 degrees C, I got stuck at roadworks for half an hour with the aircon on and put it in charge mode and forgot about it for about half the rest of the trip (head somewhere else).

I know people with similar sized cars with a V6 that come in somewhere around 8-11 l/100km; I'm not exactly light footed on the freeway... but only slightly over ;-)
I have a friend who has a tiny Honda three door thing gets 6 l/100km on that trip.
Overall I think the PHEV does great.

And yes, Anko, it could be better; as much as I love my car, it's pretty butt ugly. But I suspect being able to use the "standard" Outlander parts bin makes a big difference in the price.

Hi HappyHeyoka,

38 C. Are you in Australia because those are the sort of temps happening here at the moment?

That trip could have been a nightmare. Thank god for air conditioners.

Glad you like the PHEV's fuel consumption.

Regards Trex.

 

[Trex]

Morning guys (in the UK),

Interesting comments. I confess I'm pretty ignorant about car aerodynamics, but looking at the shape of the PHEV I wouldn't have thought it was too bad for an SUV. So I'm wondering why you would classify it as a 'brick'?

So my question to you learned gentlemen is; Is there a standard measure of car aerodynamic performance (some sort of overall coefficient I would imagine), is it published for different vehicles, and how then does the PHEV compare to other similar vehicles?

For the record, I am not complaining about the fuel consumption of my PHEV, which when you look at the overall picture I think is pretty good. I think those that are dissatisfied have generally not considered fully whether this vehicle is suitable for their driving needs.

Cheers,

Mikk

Sorry Mikk,

I was just repeating what is a saying over here about SUVs, Vans etc when I said that it has the aerodynamics of a brick.

I do not consider the PHEV any worse than other SUVs.

Regards Trex.