Drive battery degradation . Houston, do we have a problem?

[Trex]

It's easy to measure the kWh in the MMCS for a full charge.
You can compare it with the kWh for a full charge when the car was new (about 9.5 kWh).

I'm afraid that you will find about 8.2 kWh (9.5 minus 14%) ...

Hi Grigou,

We have not spoken (written) for its seems like ages.

How is everything?

It would seem if you read zzcoopej post (just below yours) I may see about 8.75 kWh (9.5 minus 8%)

Because my initial 6% was never there. Bugger. :lol:

Regards Trex.

 

[anko]

My '0 km' reading (produced at delivery of the car ) was 38.4 Ah. Had it driven 0 km then? Not likely. But should not have been more than just a few either.
After 38 months and 104.000 km I am at 30.4.

Half a year ago, I was at 32.8 (even at 33.4 after refreshment procedure). So, I am not to convinced about this 'faster in the beginning' story.

 

[Grigou]

It's easy to measure the kWh in the MMCS for a full charge.
You can compare it with the kWh for a full charge when the car was new (about 9.5 kWh).

I'm afraid that you will find about 8.2 kWh (9.5 minus 14%) ...

Hi Grigou,

We have not spoken (written) for its seems like ages.

How is everything?

It would seem if you read zzcoopej post (just below yours) I may see about 8.75 kWh (9.5 minus 8%)

Because my initial 6% was never there. Bugger. :lol:

Regards Trex.

Hello Trex, no we have not, and I don't remember our conversations. They are rare because my English is limited and for me it's not easy to write.
But I can read you very often

If zzcoopej is right, I keep to not calculate the same way than you for your battery : 9.5 minus 6 % when it was "new", and 9.5 minus 14 % now.
But did you measured the kWh for a full charge when it was new ? That is the question...
I didn't.

 

[Grigou]

Half a year ago, I was at 32.8 (even at 33.4 after refreshment procedure). So, I am not to convinced about this 'faster in the beginning' story.

I missed this story
Interesting ! Could you please explane it or indicate in what subject you talked about it ?

 

[anko]

Half a year ago, I was at 32.8 (even at 33.4 after refreshment procedure). So, I am not to convinced about this 'faster in the beginning' story.

I missed this story
Interesting ! Could you please explane it or indicate in what subject you talked about it ?

My mistake. It was at http://www.outlanderphevforum.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3542&hilit=diagnosis (the Dutch PHEV forum)

Some measurements from my car:

November, 2013 (0 km): 37,8
August, 2014 (22000 km): 34,5
December, 2014 (30000 km): 34,2
April, 2015 (40000 km): 33,9
June, 2016: 32.5 / 33.4 (before / after refreshment procedure)
July, 2016 (3500 km after refreshment) 32.8
September, 2016: 31.5
November, 2016: 31.3
December, 2016: 30.6
January 2017 (104.000), 30.4

It doesn't appear to straighten out.

BTW: one forum member said his dealer charged EURO 8.35 incl VAT for the report.

 

[Trex]

It's easy to measure the kWh in the MMCS for a full charge.
You can compare it with the kWh for a full charge when the car was new (about 9.5 kWh).

I'm afraid that you will find about 8.2 kWh (9.5 minus 14%) ...

Hi Grigou,

We have not spoken (written) for its seems like ages.

How is everything?

It would seem if you read zzcoopej post (just below yours) I may see about 8.75 kWh (9.5 minus 8%)

Because my initial 6% was never there. Bugger. :lol:

Regards Trex.

Hello Trex, no we have not, and I don't remember our conversations. They are rare because my English is limited and for me it's not easy to write.
But I can read you very often

If zzcoopej is right, I keep to not calculate the same way than you for your battery : 9.5 minus 6 % when it was "new", and 9.5 minus 14 % now.
But did you measured the kWh for a full charge when it was new ? That is the question...
I didn't.

Ok , I have a pretty good memory of peoples names around here but you may be right.

But how is everything anyway?

Your English seems good, I think, and I bet it is a lot better than my French.

"Read me very often? " Me with around 400 posts that's nothing around here. Or are you trying to say something else.

"But did you measured the kWh for a full charge when it was new ? That is the question... "

Yes and it was very close to 10 KWh (empty battery) if I remember correctly. Done through the MMCS.

But that would mean 19% approx ( (10 -8.4)/8.4 ) losses through the OBC to get to 8.4 KWh that is usable in our drive batteries. That seem a little high so I may be mistaken. Will go through the PHEV to see if I wrote it down.

ps or should it be (10-8.4)/10 =16% losses which sounds about right. :lol:

 

[Trex]

My '0 km' reading (produced at delivery of the car ) was 38.4 Ah. Had it driven 0 km then? Not likely. But should not have been more than just a few either.
After 38 months and 104.000 km I am at 30.4.

Half a year ago, I was at 32.8 (even at 33.4 after refreshment procedure). So, I am not to convinced about this 'faster in the beginning' story.

anko

When I press that link you provide it just take me to log in on that website.

Can you bring a copy over here?

Yes I am not yet totally convinced myself and is why I said.

"But we do not know what my initial degradation (bought April 2014) was so we are speculating here are we not?"

Just what the hell is a "refreshment procedure". :lol:

 

[jaapv]

A service offered by Mitsubishi balancing the cells.

 

[anko]

When I press that link you provide it just take me to log in on that website.

Can you bring a copy over here?

Didn't think of that. Sorry. But I did try to copy the information I thought was interesting.

 

[Grigou]

Hi Grigou,

We have not spoken (written) for its seems like ages.

How is everything?

It would seem if you read zzcoopej post (just below yours) I may see about 8.75 kWh (9.5 minus 8%)

Because my initial 6% was never there. Bugger. :lol:

Regards Trex.

Hello Trex, no we have not, and I don't remember our conversations. They are rare because my English is limited and for me it's not easy to write.
But I can read you very often

If zzcoopej is right, I keep to not calculate the same way than you for your battery : 9.5 minus 6 % when it was "new", and 9.5 minus 14 % now.
But did you measured the kWh for a full charge when it was new ? That is the question...
I didn't.

Ok , I have a pretty good memory of peoples names around here but you may be right.

But how is everything anyway?

Your English seems good, I think, and I bet it is a lot better than my French.

"Read me very often? " Me with around 400 posts that's nothing around here. Or are you trying to say something else.

"But did you measured the kWh for a full charge when it was new ? That is the question... "

Yes and it was very close to 10 KWh (empty battery) if I remember correctly. Done through the MMCS.

But that would mean 19% approx ( (10 -8.4)/8.4 ) losses through the OBC to get to 8.4 KWh that is usable in our drive batteries. That seem a little high so I may be mistaken. Will go through the PHEV to see if I wrote it down.

ps or should it be (10-8.4)/10 =16% losses which sounds about right. :lol:

Everything is right and I'am still happy with my Outlander
A good silent car, very pleasant in EV mode in town. Hope Mitsu will make an even better PHEV with the ASX, without all these Outy's little weak points.

16 % losses sounds right in my opinion. So you should have now approx. 10-14% = 8.6 kWh measured on your MMCS...

 

[HHL]

A service offered by Mitsubishi balancing the cells.

Or balancing the dealer's books?

I would have thought that the BMS would take care of this every time you charge it?

I guess if the car is charged exclusively with a fast charger it may become necessary.

 

[PHEVdriver2]

Hello
I have just bought a very nice 2015 Outlander PHEV.
I will be honest, I am totally out of my depth with the technical stuff as yet.
I do not understand any of the terminology as yet.
After reading many of your posts regarding drive battery life.
I asked the dealer for a full technical battery report.
The workshop who were servicing the car said they could not do it and I was referred to Mitsubishi.
The salesman rang Mitsubishi.
He said ''Mitsubishi will guarantee the drive battery will not go below 80% for ten years''.
I have this in writing via email.
I don't believe a word of it.
The battery could be below 80% now how would I know?
I love the car but as a newbie I would be grateful for any help or advise from any one on any aspect of the car
especially the drive battery.
Kind Regards.

 

[zzcoopej]

The battery could be below 80% now how would I know?
I love the car but as a newbie I would be grateful for any help or advise from any one on any aspect of the car
especially the drive battery.

You can easily check on, and track, the degradation in capacity in your battery yourself. See http://www.evpositive.com/battery-history.html

Note that the graph is in Ah, however you can convert that to a percentage by dividing by 38, so if your battery is currently at 34Ah, then 34Ah / 38Ah (battery capacity when new) = 90% PMC (Percentage of Manufacturer's Capacity)

All you need is the EvBatMon Android & iPhone App and an OBD Adapter that plugs into the service port under your steering wheel. See here for details -
Android http://www.evpositive.com/evbatmon-for-phev.html and
iPhone/iPad http://evpositive.com/evbatmon-for-phev-ios.html

 

[PHEVdriver2]

Thank you J
Brilliant.
That's exactly what I needed to know.
I still wonder why the main dealer workshop are not doing this as a matter of routine.
Still I will follow your advise and report back.

Once again thank for taking the time

Kind Regards

 

[jaapv]

It is an extra you can request with the service, it is not expensive.

 

[anko]

I am pretty sure they do it by default. And report back to Japan, but maybe not to you ....

 

[maby]

It is an extra you can request with the service, it is not expensive.

Check with the dealer before requesting it - mine wants £50 for the battery condition test - which is a significant fraction of the cost of a service.

 

[anko]

It is an extra you can request with the service, it is not expensive.

Check with the dealer before requesting it - mine wants £50 for the battery condition test - which is a significant fraction of the cost of a service.

That amount will easily buy you an adapter + EvBatMon. Then you can do it yourself

 

[PHEVdriver2]

Hello Anco
I have been looking at the prices of the adaptors on line.
there is a wide range. (Approx. £50/£200 +) Is there any advantage in buying the more expensive version,
Regards

 

[jaapv]

It is an extra you can request with the service, it is not expensive.

Check with the dealer before requesting it - mine wants £50 for the battery condition test - which is a significant fraction of the cost of a service.

That appears to be a bit over the top for just reading a few numbers...