Let's go pure EV...

[Tipper]

You are pleased about your boat twice...when you buy it and when you sell it. In between it's like feeding fivers to a goat!

Classic cars are so much better for your wallet, no road tax, cheap insurance, no MOT (pre 1960) and they go up in value!

 

[anko]

But now that's the sun's come out the need for a 300 + Euro switch has diminished somewhat....when does the summer sale start?

As I said, from a drivability perspective, the 'well within EV range' trips are the ones where I enjoy the box the most, as drivability is so much better. But in winter time less trips are 'well within EV range', due to the limited range. This particularly applies to my daily commute. So, now with the sun coming out, I get to enjoy it more and more often

 

[anko]

Classic cars are so much better for your wallet, no road tax, cheap insurance, no MOT (pre 1960) and ...

You have road taxes and MOT for boats, in the UK? Funny country :lol: :lol:

 

[maby]

Classic cars are so much better for your wallet, no road tax, cheap insurance, no MOT (pre 1960) and ...

You have road taxes and MOT for boats, in the UK? Funny country :lol: :lol:

We don't - but that does not stop it being ruinously expensive! Actually, some places do have "river tax" - it used to cost us about £50 per annum for the right to sail in the Medway river.

 

[jaapv]

You are pleased about your boat twice...when you buy it and when you sell it. In between it's like feeding fivers to a goat!

Classic cars are so much better for your wallet, no road tax, cheap insurance, no MOT (pre 1960) and they go up in value!

Try cameras and safaris for burning money...

 

[maby]

You are pleased about your boat twice...when you buy it and when you sell it. In between it's like feeding fivers to a goat!

Classic cars are so much better for your wallet, no road tax, cheap insurance, no MOT (pre 1960) and they go up in value!

Try cameras and safaris for burning money...

Hmmm, I think that a boat habit probably wins - the hole in the water that it sits in costs me £10k per annum before I begin to consider using it...

 

[jaapv]

Ummm. about 2/3rds of an SL and couple of lenses or a Safari... I get your point, though, in the marinas near to me I see toys up to 40-50 million..

 

[anko]

Back on topic, I can confirm that the box, as expected, does not prevent ice startup as a result of ACC.

 

[vs2]

Many must have been running and tested this by now. Any feedback?

 

[jaapv]

It sure makes a difference, although I must still adjust it, it is a bit too easy to push the ICE into series hybrid.I'll have to turn the rotary control one click, I guess. Other than that it works as advertised. The ICEheater module does not appear to work well, I did get a few starts @ 9 degrees in the morning, however, temperatures have not been conductive to serious testing

 

[vs2]

One more question as I'm thinking of getting the Box but have not owned the car long enough to test properly (temperature wise). When the Eco (EV) button is pressed the heating/cooling goes into reduced capacity, so in this mode is the heating/cooling able to 'keep up' under normal conditions, ie our local conditions 28C Summer, 10C Winter.

 

[PeteInOz]

G'day Guys,

Given some adverse health issues, it has been some considerable time since I have logged onto the forum here. Anyway, over the last day or so I was Googling a number of things and came across several references to the VTech PHEV Box, which at face value looks like a good piece of kit. However, I wanted to ask the forum (and those who have installed and had direct experience with the box) as to how they now feel about the benefits and / or cons of the PHEV Box as it has now been a few months since members of the forum have commented on this subject.

Also, I am keen to know if any members that have installed this Box have experimented with operating the vehicle in the pure ECO/EV only mode over an extended range of say 200-300Km (i.e. whilst remaining in this mode and turning on the charge or save button). The reason I am interested in this is because VTech has demonstrated that the vehicle will remain on pure EV up to 130Km/hr ... and because Mitsubishi has stated officially within their propaganda that the battery can be fully recharged from a flat battery with only about 3 litres of fuel. So with this in mind, I got to thinking that with an average EV range of ~52Km per charge .... then charging the battery whilst remaining in pure EV mode whilst driving .... may perhaps result in better overall fuel consumption (i.e. approximately 6L/100Km as opposed to the normal 7-8L/100Km that we would normally experience with stock standard vehicles)

Appreciate your advice guys ... and hope this finds you all well

Cheers

PeteInOz

 

[vs2]

The Phev Box works great. I had some issues in the beginning but that was due to hardware/supply problems causing a 'Eeprom failure'. This has now been fixed and since then I have had no issues.

Once you get into the habit of driving in the Eco (Phev Box) mode and getting used to the throttle and throttle responses then you will not be disappointed. It is so nice to put your foot down and know the ICE will not start but at the same time you are getting maximum EV power. I often drive 40km in urban/motorway conditions and have only needed the kickdown (ICE) once.

As far as other conditions and 6 months of ownership and a few 400km trips I have concluded (my own testing) to keep in it in ECO mode and let the car do its own thing as in fully automatic mode (D (B2), no save and no charge buttons pressed) I always get 5.5l /100km by doing this, if I play with all the settings it seems to be 6.5l /100km. The exception would be towing.

 

[zzcoopej]

Mitsubishi has stated officially within their propaganda that the battery can be fully recharged from a flat battery with only about 3 litres of fuel. So with this in mind, I got to thinking that with an average EV range of ~52Km per charge .... then charging the battery whilst remaining in pure EV mode whilst driving .... may perhaps result in better overall fuel consumption (i.e. approximately 6L/100Km as opposed to the normal 7-8L/100Km that we would normally experience with stock standard vehicles)

I get your theory, however I don't see this working on most trips as you are introducing a round trip to the battery which incurs a loss. However, running the ICE continuously to charge the battery (similar to using the Charge button instead of Save button) in certain circumstances has resulted in lowering the fuel economy. This is because the ICE can operate at its sweet spot of fuel economy and there are no losses from stop-start.

However I believe the "charge" strategy only works when driving > 65km/h. ie in Parallel Hybrid mode, and then using this excess stored power at low speeds. There is a reason Mitsubishi went to the effort of having a Parallel Hybrid mode, and that is that it is more efficient to directly drive the wheels at higher speeds with the ICE, than it is to generate electricity and use the e-motors. There are a lot of variables in each trip (terrain, average speed etc) that will affect individual results, so something that may achieve a better result for one owner may not work for you. The PHEV is a compromise that will make the best out of most situations, with the exception of not knowing when the trip will end and if there will be a fast+slow section (or EV only zone), hence Charge & Save buttons.

Apart from Charge & Save buttons, I actually experimented with a new "accumulate" mode where the save button is switched off and then back on just after downhill runs. The intention of this "accumulate" mode is avoiding "wasting" the stored power from the downhill run being used at high speeds, rather keeping it in reserve for slower parts of the trip. My last attempt was foiled by an almost empty fuel tank causing the PHEV to "steal" my accumulated EV range while still on the freeway, grrr!

With the above in mind, and the 52km "textbook" range not including much (if any) high speed driving, I doubt your hypothesis would play out in real life. However I'm happy to be proven wrong as I keep discovering new things about the PHEV all the time. Its a truly remarkable car!

 

[PeteInOz]

G'day ZZCOOPEJ and VS2,

Many thanks for the observations and advice. I fully appreciate zzcoopej's comment about the losses incurred from the EV motors at higher speed and the reason why the Mitsubishi has incorporated the serial and parallel hybrid modes. I guess I was just thinking that if you know you are going to travel >100Km, and given that the PHEV Box has a top EV speed of 130Km/Hr, would it not be better to invoke either the 'charge' or 'save' modes to remain in a notional EV mode to perhaps achieve better fuel economy from the charger alone. That's how BMW does it with their i3 ... so I am just channeling that idea through to our Outlander PHEVs.

Finally, and I am not sure about other members, but I would have to say that VS2's consumption results of 5.5L/100Km on average, are bloody impressive! Is this since you introduced the PHEV Box or has this been your experience all along? In any case, any further insights into how you might be achieving those results would be very much appreciated please mate, if you are so inclined (e.g. what avg speed are you doing, what type of roads do you normally travel on those 400Km runs, what octane fuel are you using, tire inflation level, etc etc).

Cheers

Peter

PS Given the type of game VTech is in, I wonder if they might improve upon the ICE charger/motor performances perhaps .... just a thought :idea:

 

[vs2]

Where I live in NZ we have lots of hills and even though our speed limit is 100kmh the true average speed is probably more like 75kmh. I do use B5 on hills sometimes but the best economy I have got is with ACC on and full auto mode. I guess the 5.5l/100km is due to the total lower average speed. My tires are at 38psi and our temperature is moderate so the AC and heating only need to work to a 3-4 degree differential. For 5000km my total average is at 2.7l /100km.

I guess my point is when I 1st got the PHEV I was playing with all the modes and the 'save' button, but now I just get in and hit the 'Eco' button, auto temp to 21 degrees and let the car do its own thing. The best thing I have purchased for the car is the PHEV Box. There is a reason why the next gen PHEV will have a EV button.

 

[PeteInOz]

G'day VS2,

Thanks for the further info mate. Didn't realise you were so close ... and yes ... given the terrain and lower speeds I can easily see now how your fuel consumption may indeed be lower. I will give the PHEV Box a little more thought though price + shipping is still a bit of a barrier.

Cheers

Pete
Canberra

 

[PeteInOz]

Further to my last, I just called VTech's local Aussie supplier and they want $900 + GST (10%) for the PHEV Box. That's BS!. They are not doing VTech any favours by trying to fleece Aussie buyers I feel. The price of the PHEV box, plus heater attachment, plus shipping directly from VTech works out to be approximately $A450 (i.e. 281 Euros), is still a bit pricey I feel. Will consider some more, but in the first instance, very disappointed in the antics of the Aussie Distributor.

Cheers

Pete

 

[elm70]

I was looking around if any company did managed to remap the PHEV ECU for have real EV mode when Economy mode is activated.

But it is looking like the only option on the market is from VTECH

It is looking to me that this box, it is "just" a simple proxy cable between ECU and accelerator pedal.

So, at the end there is no advanced trick ... it just re-module the throttle signal for avoid to request over 60KW of power that would require to start the ICE

In this context the 8% extra EV range sounds like a joke, and the mountain test, prove it (com'on range can't be tested in mountain), the energy from 500m difference in altitude alone will bring 8% in range

The ICEheaterStop ... it is looking even a worst trick ... hacking a sensor with flying cable on a 40K USD car ... com'on ... unacceptable under all point of view

I hope to have understand wrong .... and I welcome anybody that can put some concrete fact that prove it

Yes ... ICE start in cold is mega annoying especially when it start 1 second as soon as I switch on the car
And as well ... I want to floor the gas pedal while in Eco mode, and be sure to not start the ICE ... now I have like 10deg or 1cm range between no gas and 60KW .. that make a stress to drive in EV only mode the car

Price under 300 Euro is looking about ok ... but still ... a proper ECU remap and tuning it would have been a far better option.

How many people got this box ?

Thanks

e_lm_70

 

[IAmTheWalrus]

Does the use of the VTECH box invalidate the Mitsubishi warranty?