PHEV off road not good!

[Sailordoc]

Had a disappointing experience with my PHEV recently, and am trying to figure out what to do differently next time. I was out on a shooting day and decided to try out the PHEV in a muddy field we had been in earlier in the day when a Discovery Sport and Dacia Duster had done well with their stock road tyres. I followed the same route they had taken, with 4WD lock engaged and traction control off. The PHEV slid all over the place! Trying to turn around to get out was worse with the car getting stuck a few times. Turning traction control back on just meant the wheels didn't turn so turned it back off and rocked backwards and forewords and then when it started moving just kept my foot down. Slid all over the place again but got out with car plastered in mud! I previously had a Freelander and I've done the Land Rover off road day previously so this seriously shook my confidence in the car!

I wonder if the Toyos are just much worse than the stock tyres on the other cars, or whether the lack of any driving modes other than '4WD lock' makes it worse off road than the diesel version and indeed the Discovery Sport and Dacia Duster. What can I do to make it less embarrassing off road, whilst preferably not making it too noisy on road? Options for all terrain tyres seem a bit limited by the wheel size. Or am I just expecting too much from the car?

 

[Claymore]

Yes, I've just had a very similar experience on a flat farm track into a field, track pretty wet, used 4WD lock and thought I was going to end up on the fence. Really bad and worse than my old Skoda Superb front wheel drive.

 

[jaapv]

I do suspect the Toyos. I have the opposite experience on snow, both wet-slippery and deep. It outperformed a Volvo XC90 on that occasion But the car was on decent winter tyres at the time.
Personally I am looking at Pirelli Scorpions for my next tyres.

 

[zzcoopej]

Had a disappointing experience with my PHEV recently, and am trying to figure out what to do differently next time.

What pressure do you run in your PHEV tyres? I find EV and PHEV owners tend to run 4-8 psi higher than ICE car owners (eg 38psi instead of 34psi) to help get better EV range. While this helps on road, off road it is unhelpful as it reduces the contact area.

 

[maby]

Fiddling with tyres may help, but ultimately it is not an off-roader - Mitsubishi are very explicit about this in the user's manual. It lacks both the differential locks and axle articulation that you would expect to see in an off-roader.

 

[Muddywheels]

I've done a lot of offroad during my LR ownership and with my previous Landcruiser and first rule everytime is tyres - anything less than a decent mud and snow is asking for trouble

I have fitted Conti winters on the phev now which are m&s but I had them on rrsport previously and they're rubbish in mud but hopefully good on snow and ice

After buying and reading the handbook it's obvious the phev is not designed for off road use especially driving through water but as long as I get economic comfortable motoring and don't have to flag down a LR to pull me up a hill in snow I'm content

Looking under the vehicle the exhaust is very exposed to damage as well

If I decide to do some more offroad I would probably look for a cheap Defender or Freelander or if I had some spare cash the Shogun looks excellent value compared to a Discovery :mrgreen:

I've been looking for a 1960s Series2 LR for some time to keep but wouldn't use it off road

I have had Pirelli Scorpions on RRS and found them decent in wet fields pulling a twin axle caravan but not good in winter

 

[jaapv]

I've done a lot of offroad during my LR ownership and with my previous Landcruiser and first rule everytime is tyres - anything less than a decent mud and snow is asking for trouble

I have fitted Conti winters on the phev now which are m&s but I had them on rrsport previously and they're rubbish in mud but hopefully good on snow and ice

After buying and reading the handbook it's obvious the phev is not designed for off road use especially driving through water but as long as I get economic comfortable motoring and don't have to flag down a LR to pull me up a hill in snow I'm content

Looking under the vehicle the exhaust is very exposed to damage as well

If I decide to do some more offroad I would probably look for a cheap Defender or Freelander or if I had some spare cash the Shogun looks excellent value compared to a Discovery :mrgreen:

I've been looking for a 1960s Series2 LR for some time to keep but wouldn't use it off road

I have had Pirelli Scorpions on RRS and found them decent in wet fields pulling a twin axle caravan but not good in winter

Yes - but they offer different treads. I was not looking at all-season ones and biased more to road use. I would use them occasionally for muddy fields and (rarely) beach driving only.
I see the car as a very good soft-roader.

 

[Sailordoc]

Fiddling with tyres may help, but ultimately it is not an off-roader - Mitsubishi are very explicit about this in the user's manual. It lacks both the differential locks and axle articulation that you would expect to see in an off-roader.

True, although that is not what the website says or indeed what their marketing says. I'm not expecting it to perform like a Defender, but I do expect it to perform like an SUV such as the Discovery Sport or Dacia Duster otherwise you might as well have a 2 wheel drive vehicle! I wonder if the manual for the Diesel Outlander says the same as the PHEV one? Since they explicitly state that the two are comparable off road they could be in trouble otherwise.

 

[Sailordoc]

Had a disappointing experience with my PHEV recently, and am trying to figure out what to do differently next time.

What pressure do you run in your PHEV tyres? I find EV and PHEV owners tend to run 4-8 psi higher than ICE car owners (eg 38psi instead of 34psi) to help get better EV range. While this helps on road, off road it is unhelpful as it reduces the contact area.

34 psi as per the manual

 

[jaapv]

Fiddling with tyres may help, but ultimately it is not an off-roader - Mitsubishi are very explicit about this in the user's manual. It lacks both the differential locks and axle articulation that you would expect to see in an off-roader.

True, although that is not what the website says or indeed what their marketing says. I'm not expecting it to perform like a Defender, but I do expect it to perform like an SUV such as the Discovery Sport or Dacia Duster otherwise you might as well have a 2 wheel drive vehicle! I wonder if the manual for the Diesel Outlander says the same as the PHEV one? Since they explicitly state that the two are comparable off road they could be in trouble otherwise.

They are not the same. The Diesel cannot be cross-axeled, the PHEV can, with wheelspin as a result.

 

[Sailordoc]

I have fitted Conti winters on the phev now which are m&s but I had them on rrsport previously and they're rubbish in mud but hopefully good on snow and ice

After buying and reading the handbook it's obvious the phev is not designed for off road use especially driving through water but as long as I get economic comfortable motoring and don't have to flag down a LR to pull me up a hill in snow I'm content

<snip>

I have had Pirelli Scorpions on RRS and found them decent in wet fields pulling a twin axle caravan but not good in winter

Yes, I'm not after miracles, but it appears that it is far worse than a Dacia Duster which also doesn't have a diff lock or Terrain Response modes. I'm trying to weigh up whether it is worth swapping tyres, or whether it just needs to stick to tarmac and accept that Mitsubishi are in essence lying in their marketing and website. If it copes with snow OK that would be something, but I don't want to suddenly find in a busy street on a hill that it doesn't!

 

[Sailordoc]

They are not the same. The Diesel cannot be cross-axeled, the PHEV can, with wheelspin as a result.

Yes, I'm beginning to wish I had done more research before buying rather than believing the website and dealer. Here are two extracts from the Q&A section of the Mitsubishi UK website:

Q: CAN I DRIVE THE OUTLANDER PHEV OFF ROAD?
Yes, the twin-motor 4WD system and Mitsubishi’s proven Super All Wheel Control system provide the vehicle with superb off road ability. The power delivered from the Electric Motor and Internal Combustion Engine is able to deliver 200bhp to the wheels.

Q: IS THE PERFORMANCE OF THE VEHICLE COMPROMISED?
No, in fact the vehicle is quicker to 62mph than the Outlander 2.2 Diesel Auto due to the combined power output from the Electric Motor and Internal Combustion Engine. The 4 Wheel Drive ability is not compromised as the combination of the twin-motor 4WD system and Mitsubishi’s existing technology allows for an enhanced off road performance.

 

[jaapv]

I have fitted Conti winters on the phev now which are m&s but I had them on rrsport previously and they're rubbish in mud but hopefully good on snow and ice

After buying and reading the handbook it's obvious the phev is not designed for off road use especially driving through water but as long as I get economic comfortable motoring and don't have to flag down a LR to pull me up a hill in snow I'm content

<snip>

I have had Pirelli Scorpions on RRS and found them decent in wet fields pulling a twin axle caravan but not good in winter

Yes, I'm not after miracles, but it appears that it is far worse than a Dacia Duster which also doesn't have a diff lock or Terrain Response modes. I'm trying to weigh up whether it is worth swapping tyres, or whether it just needs to stick to tarmac and accept that Mitsubishi are in essence lying in their marketing and website. If it copes with snow OK that would be something, but I don't want to suddenly find in a busy street on a hill that it doesn't!

I found it is great on snow, but I only used it that way on good winter tyres.

 

[Sailordoc]

I found it is great on snow, but I only used it that way on good winter tyres.

Thanks. As well as snow I also need it to be able to cope with the sort of rough tracks you find on shooting estates. Any recommendations for suitable tyres to cope with both? Ideally all season tyres as I don't want to have to keep swapping tyres.

 

[Muddywheels]

I've used Goodyear wrangler all season tyres on LRs and found them pretty good all round including snow and off road but they're not available to fit the phev size

 

[Sailordoc]

I've used Goodyear wrangler all season tyres on LRs and found them pretty good all round including snow and off road but they're not available to fit the phev size

Indeed, it seems not many are. Ever used or heard reviews of these Geolandars?
https://www.tyresdirectuk.co.uk/shop/tyres/yokohama-geolandar-a-t-s-225-55-r18-98h-f-c-75/

 

[Muddywheels]

No experience myself but some reviews here http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Yokohama/Geolander-AT-S.htm

 

[Sailordoc]

No experience myself but some reviews here http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Yokohama/Geolander-AT-S.htm

Well that seems pretty positive. I might give them a go, especially since others have not rated the Toyos on snow either!

 

[jaapv]

The Michelin CrossClimate gets raving reviews:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-CrossClimate-launched-is-this-a-game-changer.htm

I'm not sure whether it comes in the right size,though.

 

[Sailordoc]

The Michelin CrossClimate gets raving reviews:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-CrossClimate-launched-is-this-a-game-changer.htm

I'm not sure whether it comes in the right size,though.

No, not available in right size at present. I'll keep a lookout though. Thanks for the tip