Mythbusting and the facts known about the Outlander Phev.

1. It does not have a Atkinson Cycle petrol engine. But it might someday.
2. It does not have a continuously variable transmission (CVT) at the moment.
3. Charge mode does not use 20% more fuel when including the Ev distance it has or will increase.
4. It is more efficient to convert petrol energy to electrical energy and back to mechanical energy at the petrol motors most efficient zone or sweetspot than just using petrol energy in its inefficient zone. The Phev does this.
5. Battery levels have a measurable affect on fuel consumption.
6. Battery levels effect the level of regen.
7. Parallel mode is more efficient than Series mode.
8. It does have a clutch.
9. It does have a gearbox or transmission. Single speed.
10. It does not have a teeny weeny fuel tank. You are getting it mixed up with the BMW i3 with Range extender.
11. It has a chain driven camshaft. No toothed belts.
12. It has a maintenance mode. Even when battery is full the petrol motor can be started. Hold charge button more than 10 sec.
13. It has 2 oil pumps. I petrol motor driven 1 electric.
14. It has 2 water coolant pumps. 1 petrol motor driven 1 electric.
15. 2 Air conditioners circuits. Cabin and HV battery.
16. It takes an hour to charge to approx. 85% SOC but only 1/2 hour to charge to 50% SOC using charge mode when stationery or under light loads when travelling.
17. The battery charger is in the Phev not on the wall or where you plug into. Called the On Board Charger (OBC) but see 20.
18. In Series mode the max power is 120Kw (160.9hp)
19. In Parallel mode the max power is approx. 149Kw (199.8hp) at 170kph.
20. The rapid charger port bypasses the OBC.
21. It has a electric motor on both the front and back axle making it a electric 4wd. 60Kw each motor. The first mass produced electric SUV.
22. It has a "virtual" centre differential lock.

Any problem you have with these points let me know.
Or if other people wish to add to them please do.

Disclaimer. Some of these points are what I have measured or observed on my PHEV.

13. It has a steering wheel;

15. It has 2 electrical Engines and one petrol, the electrical Engines is rated 60kw each, but can only drain 30kw each from the battery, therefore the max usable Power is 30+30+89kw = 149kw, app 203hp

Trex said:

...
12. It has a maintenance mode. Even when battery is full the petrol motor can be started. Hold charge button more than 10 sec...

Click to expand...

Does this just start the engine, presumably for a garage to check it works(!) or does it 'do' anything, ie, drive the generator and/or front wheels?

MartinH said:

15. It has 2 electrical Engines and one petrol, the electrical Engines is rated 60kw each, but can only drain 30kw each from the battery, therefore the max usable Power is 30+30+89kw = 149kw, app 203hp

Click to expand...

Incorrect.
The motors can provide up to 120kw. The battery will never supply more than 200A (60kw), however, in serial mode, the engine through the generator can do another 60kw, therefore 120kw total through the electric drive train. However, the petrol engine will not reach its 87kw max until 4500rpm, which equates to 170 km/h and that is in parallel mode. There will be little surplus power to provide for the electric motors at that point. By that time, the electric motors can not contribute at all. So, the overall power available is not simply the addition of all components and depends on the speed/drive mode.
The electric motors can do 60kw each, but only intermittently before converting themselves to a blob............

The whole thing is described in quite good detail in the technical manual.

HHL said:

MartinH said:

15. It has 2 electrical Engines and one petrol, the electrical Engines is rated 60kw each, but can only drain 30kw each from the battery, therefore the max usable Power is 30+30+89kw = 149kw, app 203hp

Click to expand...

Incorrect.
The motors can provide up to 120kw. The battery will never supply more than 200A (60kw), however, in serial mode, the engine through the generator can do another 60kw, therefore 120kw total through the electric drive train. However, the petrol engine will not reach its 87kw max until 4500rpm, which equates to 170 km/h and that is in parallel mode. There will be little surplus power to provide for the electric motors at that point. By that time, the electric motors can not contribute at all. So, the overall power available is not simply the addition of all components and depends on the speed/drive mode.
The electric motors can do 60kw each, but only intermittently before converting themselves to a blob............

The whole thing is described in quite good detail in the technical manual.

Click to expand...

Martin did not add up every thing. If he had, he would have gotten to 60 + 60 + 89. He got the final number right.

The only 'mistake' he made is that an electric motor can in fact drain 60 kW from the battery, but only one motor at a time. In parallel mode at top speed, the engine can provide 89 kW straight to the front wheels and the rear E-motor can provide 60 kW to the rear wheels, using electric power from the battery. Resulting in a total of 149 kW to the wheels (okay, some losses ignored there).

I would have put it this way: max usable power is 89 kW (ICE) + 60 kW (battery) = 149 kW in total.

Thanks Anko.
I find it interesting that people likes to correct even correct Points, without enough knowledge.
I Think it will be a more interesting forum if we focus on helping other PHEV owners with their questions, and having positive discussions.

MartinH said:

Thanks Anko.
I find it interesting that people likes to correct even correct Points, without enough knowledge.
I Think it will be a more interesting forum if we focus on helping other PHEV owners with their questions, and having positive discussions.

Click to expand...

:shock:

"By that time [at 170 kph], the electric motors can not contribute at all." was VERY incorrect, wasn't it ?

And even if my English is rather poor, I understand that you criticizes the anko's knowledge ? That's so funny ! :mrgreen:

message edited : ooops, confusion between MartinH and HHL, sorry Martin, I understand now that your thanks were not ironical

5. Battery levels have a measurable affect on fuel consumption.

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Very good List, the 12 Points! Thank you Trex!

I can follow and agree all points, but I can not understand why the battery level (talking about the usable level) has an affect on fuel consumption....

Can anybody help me on this point?

Peter

Found my question anwered in another threat:

Actually I've thought about this again and now conclude there is good reason the software works this way because we know that the batteries can accept charging faster at lower SoC thus putting greater load on the ICE and so greater efficiency & consumption. So it IS the EV physics (of the batteries) that are dictating the programming If so, then this should apply to either the mini-charge cycles under Save or Charge itself, i.e. the car will always run the ICE more economically when the SoC is lower.

Click to expand...

Number 16 - or was it 14? The manual is very complicated and does not tell you everything. Some things have to be learned from other people's experience, this forum or by trial and error.

anko said:

HHL said:

MartinH said:

15. It has 2 electrical Engines and one petrol, the electrical Engines is rated 60kw each, but can only drain 30kw each from the battery, therefore the max usable Power is 30+30+89kw = 149kw, app 203hp

Click to expand...

Incorrect.
The motors can provide up to 120kw. The battery will never supply more than 200A (60kw), however, in serial mode, the engine through the generator can do another 60kw, therefore 120kw total through the electric drive train. However, the petrol engine will not reach its 87kw max until 4500rpm, which equates to 170 km/h and that is in parallel mode. There will be little surplus power to provide for the electric motors at that point. By that time, the electric motors can not contribute at all. So, the overall power available is not simply the addition of all components and depends on the speed/drive mode.
The electric motors can do 60kw each, but only intermittently before converting themselves to a blob............

The whole thing is described in quite good detail in the technical manual.

Click to expand...

Martin did not add up every thing. If he had, he would have gotten to 60 + 60 + 89. He got the final number right.

The only 'mistake' he made is that an electric motor can in fact drain 60 kW from the battery, but only one motor at a time. In parallel mode at top speed, the engine can provide 89 kW straight to the front wheels and the rear E-motor can provide 60 kW to the rear wheels, using electric power from the battery. Resulting in a total of 149 kW to the wheels (okay, some losses ignored there).

I would have put it this way: max usable power is 89 kW (ICE) + 60 kW (battery) = 149 kW in total.

Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding pedantic, the maximum power from the rear motor at 170 is actually only about 35kw......power out from that motor drops dramatically at about 165.

:mrgreen:

HHL said:

At the risk of sounding pedantic, the maximum power from the rear motor at 170 is actually only about 35kw......power out from that motor drops dramatically at about 165.

:mrgreen:

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Don't know. You might have a point there. Good thing we have two E-motors available to consume the 60 kW available from the battery.

BTW: Where did you find / how did you discover this info?

anko said:

HHL said:

At the risk of sounding pedantic, the maximum power from the rear motor at 170 is actually only about 35kw......power out from that motor drops dramatically at about 165.

:mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Don't know. You might have a point there. Good thing we have two E-motors available to consume the 60 kW available from the battery.

BTW: Where did you find / how did you discover this info?

Click to expand...

It is all in the Technical document, maybe somewhat hidden in the torque/power graphs.
Actually, the motor can output 60 kw right up to 165...but then the engine does not quite make 87kw until 170..... I said I was being pedantic.
Anyway, there is a lot of detail in that document that makes for interesting reading. I'm in awe as to how much clever engineering has gone into that vehicle. It seems to be not generally appreciated.

Tipper said:

Trex said:

...
12. It has a maintenance mode. Even when battery is full the petrol motor can be started. Hold charge button more than 10 sec...

Click to expand...

Does this just start the engine, presumably for a garage to check it works(!) or does it 'do' anything, ie, drive the generator and/or front wheels?

Click to expand...

Just runs the petrol engine with no load. I use it to get the oil pressure up and warm it up slightly as I live 3kms from the freeway on ramp. Otherwise I cannot get the petrol motor to start from just momentarily pressing the charge button.
I hate smashing it from dead cold to try and merge with traffic.

Ok added a few more. Anymore suggestions.

17. does not apply to ChaDeMo chargers, so only holds where you live ;-)

anko said:

17. does not apply to ChaDeMo chargers, so only holds where you live ;-)

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Hey I would not call ChaDeMo a charger. Maybe a big electric hammer that bashes your battery with electrons. :lol:
But I will begrudging fix it.

Trex said:

anko said:

17. does not apply to ChaDeMo chargers, so only holds where you live ;-)

Click to expand...

Hey I would not call ChaDeMo a charger. Maybe a big electric wire ... no hose. :lol:
But will begrudging fix it.

Click to expand...

ChaDeMo is arguable the only charger that exists outside the car. Fast chargers and the supplied cable that plugs into the mains are simply protection devices and all the charging functionality is built into the car. The ChaDeMo unit bypasses the internal circuits of the car and takes control of the process itself. There is a lot of electronics in a ChaDeMo unit.

maby said:

Trex said:

anko said:

17. does not apply to ChaDeMo chargers, so only holds where you live ;-)

Click to expand...

Hey I would not call ChaDeMo a charger. Maybe a big electric hammer that bashes your battery with electrons. :lol:
But will begrudging fix it.

Click to expand...

ChaDeMo is arguable the only charger that exists outside the car. Fast chargers and the supplied cable that plugs into the mains are simply protection devices and all the charging functionality is built into the car. The ChaDeMo unit bypasses the internal circuits of the car and takes control of the process itself. There is a lot of electronics in a ChaDeMo unit.

Click to expand...

What he said. And very eloquently I must admit.

HHL said:

I'm in awe as to how much clever engineering has gone into that vehicle.

Click to expand...

I would like to heartily second this remark.

Looking at the systems integration and user interface of this vehicle, I am constantly amazed at the level of thought that has gone in to it.

I'd love to get my hands on the "Use Cases" that were developed in relation to this car. (or the equivalent in their MechEng development process)

They've taken a really complex set of things, and turned it into something that a numpty can just jump into and drive. Without having to manage the battery, motors etc.

I'd love to meet the design team.