12v ceramic plug in heater GX3h owners may wish to consider

[aitchjaybee]

I've read many posts where GX3h owners are having to use the ICE for heat over the winter as it doesn't have the electric heater element nor pre-heat function and it got me thinking. I have a diesel VW Golf that is so fuel efficient it is really slow to warm up (about 5 miles into the journey before any heat!) so last winter I bought an electric 12V ceramic heater that plugs into the cigarette socket and provides instant heat, and I wondered if that might be worth considering instead of running ICE for heat?

The one i have was £8 from maplin and is not designed to replace a heating system, but it blows warm air out instantly so could help? http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/in-car-ceramic-heatercooler-a75fl I'm sure there are better ones.

Its not powerful enough to replace the car heater and this cheap maplin one is recommended to use for 15 minutes before allowing to cool, but it does take the chill off, or could be good to keep car warm once ICE has done its bit? worth a thought anyway. There are plenty of other models and shops to choose from.

HJB

 

[maddogsetc]

I've read many posts where GX3h owners are having to use the ICE for heat over the winter as it doesn't have the electric heater element nor pre-heat function and it got me thinking. I have a diesel VW Golf that is so fuel efficient it is really slow to warm up (about 5 miles into the journey before any heat!) so last winter I bought an electric 12V ceramic heater that plugs into the cigarette socket and provides instant heat, and I wondered if that might be worth considering instead of running ICE for heat?

The one i have was £8 from maplin and is not designed to replace a heating system, but it blows warm air out instantly so could help? http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/in-car-ceramic-heatercooler-a75fl I'm sure there are better ones.

Its not powerful enough to replace the car heater and this cheap maplin one is recommended to use for 15 minutes before allowing to cool, but it does take the chill off, or could be good to keep car warm once ICE has done its bit? worth a thought anyway. There are plenty of other models and shops to choose from.

HJB

Bearing in mind the PHEV has a very small 12v battery you might be inviting problems with this idea - I'm not sure how capable the car is of recharging the 12v quickly.

 

[jaapv]

And if you flatten the 12V battery the car is inoperable.

 

[Kim]

And if you flatten the 12V battery the car is inoperable.

But you can then jumpstart it with any small 3 cell LiPo out of a hobby shop

(Had to do it once, when I forgot to turn of my dashcams in the Fluence Z.E. for three weeks....)

 

[aitchjaybee]

I agree there are factors to take into account so yes, its worth mentioning the small 12V capacity and also to question the load of the little heater. I also think it would be unfair to be only the voice of doom so I will try and balance this thread a little.

Mitsu have said the 12V is charged via on board DC/DC from the main drive battery (thread how does 12v battery charge' http://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=218 so for short use its unlikely to flatten the 12V. And if it did, the drive battery checks and tops up the 12V at 2pm every day too, even when not plugged in and locked/alarmed.

my suggestion was for GX3h (or other worldwide models without the electric heater) for owners who are unable to preheat, who have plenty of drive battery but getting poor mpg on short journeys because the ICE is running purely for heat. I wouldnt advocate running it for long periods or thinking it could replace a full heater, but I did think its worth a thought. For long journeys, the ICE will be needed anyway. Perhaps one of the 12V readers that Chris (Lyra252) suggested would be the safety net needed: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575037787&toolid=10001&campid=5337519291&customid=forumlinkr&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2FDigital-12V-24V-LED-Car-Cigarette-Socket-Voltmeter-Voltage-Battery-Tester-%2F310908050329%3Fpt%3DUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM%26amp%3Bhash%3Ditem4863905b99%23ht_1385wt_1199

 

[user 258]

Hi,

This is silly. As long as the 12v heater is only plugged into a power source that is switched on with the ignition, how can it flatten the battery? Most of these types of devices only draw 10A (120W) which is the same as a single heated seat. If the car is switched on the tractioon battery will provide the power via the 12v system.

If you are talking about connecting the heater to a 12v source that is always switched on, even when the car is not in use, then that would be a totally different thing.

Kind regrads,
Makr

 

[Marksuk]

I would imagine a normal mains (240v) fan heater will do the trick admirably if you are that bothered

 

[anko]

If the car is switched on the tractioon battery will provide the power via the 12v system.

If this is indeed true, this would be the same as with any other normal car. Then why the mechanism of recharging the 12v battery at 14:00?

 

[aitchjaybee]

If the car is switched on the tractioon battery will provide the power via the 12v system.

If this is indeed true, this would be the same as with any other normal car. Then why the mechanism of recharging the 12v battery at 14:00?

The wifi and alarm use 12v whilst the car is parked up and car switched off. If you park in an airport long stay for 2 weeks for example, the 12v battery would be drained by the wifi and alarm so it's topped up by the drive battery. The car does a daily check at 2pm.
hjb

 

[anko]

If the car is switched on the tractioon battery will provide the power via the 12v system.

If this is indeed true, this would be the same as with any other normal car. Then why the mechanism of recharging the 12v battery at 14:00?

The wifi and alarm use 12v whilst the car is parked up and car switched off. If you park in an airport long stay for 2 weeks for example, the 12v battery would be drained by the wifi and alarm so it's topped up by the drive battery. The car does a daily check at 2pm.
hjb

I believe WiFi stops automatically after some time. Alarm is an issue to any other normal car as well. And in any other normal car, the 12v battery would have to be able to start the engine after 2 weeks at the airport, a trick which our 12v battery does't have to perform.

If the sole reason for charging at 14:00 was the fact that we have a small battery and not the fact that we don't have a 12v alternator, wouldn't you expect them to simply fit a slightly bigger battery?

To make myself understood, I am not saying it does not charge the 12v battery while driving. I am just questioning whether it really does.

 

[aitchjaybee]

Fair point. My wifi was on 3 days when I left the car, so not sure when you think it stops, but it's more than 72hours.

My earlier post (3rd or 4th in this thread) has a link to the quote from MItsu that says it does charge from drive battery (and if it does this when off, why wouldn't it on the move?) I've no reason to think mitsu are lying.

 

[anko]

Fair point. My wifi was on 3 days when I left the car, so not sure when you think it stops, but it's more than 72hours.

My earlier post (3rd or 4th in this thread) has a link to the quote from MItsu that says it does charge from drive battery (and if it does this when off, why wouldn't it on the move?) I've no reason to think mitsu are lying.

Thanks. I had not yet seen that post. Or at least didn't remember it

 

[maby]

...
To make myself understood, I am not saying it does not charge the 12v battery while driving. I am just questioning whether it really does.

Surely it must do? With the exception of the drive motors, everything else in the car is running at 12v - headlamps, sidelights, wipers etc. etc. I would assume that these are connected up in pretty much the same configuration as any other car - direct to the 12v battery which is being float charged - the only difference is that that charge is coming via a step-down power supply from the high voltage system rather than from a 12v generator.

 

[Titan]

Surely it must do? With the exception of the drive motors, everything else in the car is running at 12v - headlamps, sidelights, wipers etc. etc. I would assume that these are connected up in pretty much the same configuration as any other car - direct to the 12v battery which is being float charged - the only difference is that that charge is coming via a step-down power supply from the high voltage system rather than from a 12v generator.

I agree. As you say, all electrics, bar air-con and seats, comes from the 12v. It has to be recharged and it may be part of the reason why we as users don't get access to the last 20% of the drive motor. Wouldn't want a flat battery, flat drive battery and stuck in the middle of nowhere in the middle of night.

 

[anko]

So, if the SOC is maintained during normal drive, then why the fill-up at 14:00 hours? Of course, a normal 12v battery is bigger, but it needs to reserve a substantial part of it's charge for starting the (cold) engine the next time. Our's doesn't have to. Ahhhh, we are going in circles.

BTW: Aircon (both compressor and optional heater) is driven directly from 300v drive battery, not 12v aux battery.

 

[maby]

So, if the SOC is maintained during normal drive, then why the fill-up at 14:00 hours? Of course, a normal 12v battery is bigger, but it needs to reserve a substantial part of it's charge for starting the (cold) engine the next time. Our's doesn't have to. Ahhhh, we are going in circles.

BTW: Aircon (both compressor and optional heater) is driven directly from 300v drive battery, not 12v aux battery.

I think it has to be to top up the charge consumed by the wifi and alarm.

I just checked the specifications in the manual - had it close by to look something else up. The 12v battery is listed as 35Ah. The headlights are listed as 60W - I assume that is each bulb. 60W is 5A at 12v - they would flatten the 12v battery in less than 4 hours on their own.

 

[jaapv]

Surely it must do? With the exception of the drive motors, everything else in the car is running at 12v - headlamps, sidelights, wipers etc. etc. I would assume that these are connected up in pretty much the same configuration as any other car - direct to the 12v battery which is being float charged - the only difference is that that charge is coming via a step-down power supply from the high voltage system rather than from a 12v generator.

I agree. As you say, all electrics, bar air-con and seats, comes from the 12v. It has to be recharged and it may be part of the reason why we as users don't get access to the last 20% of the drive motor. Wouldn't want a flat battery, flat drive battery and stuck in the middle of nowhere in the middle of night.

That is rather to protect the main battery from a full discharge, which would kill it.
Even if the main battery is completely full, flattening the 12V battery will render the car unable to start up.

 

[gwatpe]

And if you flatten the 12V battery the car is inoperable.

Has anyone tried to use one of the LIPO emergency start batteries that can live in the glove box? Seems like a simple fix for the chance time the AUX battery is flat.

 

[Kim]

Has anyone tried to use one of the LIPO emergency start batteries that can live in the glove box? Seems like a simple fix for the chance time the AUX battery is flat.

Yes, I did. But only at my Fluence Z.E. EV.
And it is a 100% EV and has a full sized 12V battery under the bonnet. Even than it worked like a charm.

 

[nickthefish]

If you could get one that would switch on remotely it would save all the problems - anyone know of one that is available?