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Can i Go Solo with solar
- Thread starter Daniju
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jaapv
Well-known member
Have a large roof...
ok so that i have....
BTW im finding difficulties finding out all specs for the Phev´s battery apart from the basic info (see below) but id be interested in fionding out the capacity of the Phev´s batteries in KW (could i assume that we are talking about 12kwh*5hr charging time = 60KW?)
Battery & Motors
Battery Type Lithium-ion
Total voltage"v" :300
Capacity "kWh" 12
Thank you.
BTW im finding difficulties finding out all specs for the Phev´s battery apart from the basic info (see below) but id be interested in fionding out the capacity of the Phev´s batteries in KW (could i assume that we are talking about 12kwh*5hr charging time = 60KW?)
Battery & Motors
Battery Type Lithium-ion
Total voltage"v" :300
Capacity "kWh" 12
Thank you.
The outlander has a 12KWh battery pack which is made up of 80x Yuasa LEV40 40Ah Lithium Ion cells in series for a total voltage of between 288V and 366V depending on the state of charge. The onboard charger on the Outlander is capable of handling up to 16Amps (3.4KW) of input power (the chademo connector bypasses the onboard charger, so can charge faster).
Hope that helps.
Cheers.
Hope that helps.
Cheers.
anko
Well-known member
I think you get that wrong. 12 kWh is the total energy capacity. Usually, about 30% of this is not used to maximise battery life. So, difference between an 'empty' battery and a full one is about 9 kWh. Charging from 'empty' to full at 3300 watts (this is the max rating of the OnBoard Charger) would take little bit less than 3 hours, but while the battery is filled, the charge current is gradually reduced, resulting in an overall charge time of approx. 3.5 hours.Daniju said:
Each of the 80x LEV40 cells has 3.7V, 40Ah capacity... 3.7*40=148Wh per cell... and with 80 cells that gives 148Wh*80=11,840 Wh (or 12kWh if you round up to the nearest full kWh)... Charging at the maximum of 3400W, then a full charge from empty will take 11840/3400=3.48 Hours.
anko
Well-known member
You will never charge 11840 Wh, as (as I wrote above) the battery will never be empty. In normal usage it will not go below 26 - 30%. Only under very extreme conditions (like towing a caravan uphill), it will go lower. I've seen as low as 18%, but only on one or two occasions. When you manage to drain the battery to 13%, the car will come to a halt.Fecn said:
I'm considering similar things, and for my usage, 2kW of panels and a 10kWh battery in the driveway may suffice.
(I currently re-charge twice per week for my normal commute).
This way, my panels could charge the battery during the day, and recharge my PHEV at night.
However, a larger battery, would be more useful in terms of making my home blackout proof, so I'm still researching.
Your calculations will also depend on home much your panels can produce on average.
My roof is almost exactly the same pitch as the local latitude, and I generate 5kWh per day on average with my current 1.5kW grid connected system. This average generation figure covers up a lot of variation due to cloud, day length etc. As an example, my best day last week (we're just in Spring here now) was 8.9 kWh. My worst day was 2 kWh.
Note: In case it's not obvious, I commute during the day, so can't charge the car directly from the panels, except on the weekend.
It's currently to my advantage (high feed-in tariff) to sell my solar power during the day, and consume from the grid at night.
Hopefully this helps.
Andy
(I currently re-charge twice per week for my normal commute).
This way, my panels could charge the battery during the day, and recharge my PHEV at night.
However, a larger battery, would be more useful in terms of making my home blackout proof, so I'm still researching.
Your calculations will also depend on home much your panels can produce on average.
My roof is almost exactly the same pitch as the local latitude, and I generate 5kWh per day on average with my current 1.5kW grid connected system. This average generation figure covers up a lot of variation due to cloud, day length etc. As an example, my best day last week (we're just in Spring here now) was 8.9 kWh. My worst day was 2 kWh.
Note: In case it's not obvious, I commute during the day, so can't charge the car directly from the panels, except on the weekend.
It's currently to my advantage (high feed-in tariff) to sell my solar power during the day, and consume from the grid at night.
Hopefully this helps.
Andy
Thank you Andy,AndyInOz said:
i asked a local solar power specialist for a quote and i get the feeling he may have oversized the installation. I did mention that i would like the batteries to have enough capacity for 2 full charges He recommends the following:
12 X panel de 260W 24V. (10M2 OF PANELS!!??)
battery 800Ah C10 1146Ah C100 (38.400W)
1 X multiplus 5KVA 48V 3 in 1 de 4000/8000W at peaks
Regulator 60A MPPT
Charger 30A
Cheers
jaapv
Well-known member
It appears somewhat overdimensioned. If you use the supplied charge box, 13 A is ample and the charging current will peter off during the charge, so the battery can act as a bufffer.
He was probably using Tesla specifications.
\
But - if you are doing this just to feed the car I wonder whether it is a wise investment. It will probably take 15 years to amortize it. As nobody knows what cars will be on the market by the time you trade this one in - say in five years time- and nobody knows the chargeing requirements of cars in the future, you run a real risk of having to write off your solar system technologically long before you have written it off economically. I think it would be far cheaper to charge your car by buying green electricity.
He was probably using Tesla specifications.
\
But - if you are doing this just to feed the car I wonder whether it is a wise investment. It will probably take 15 years to amortize it. As nobody knows what cars will be on the market by the time you trade this one in - say in five years time- and nobody knows the chargeing requirements of cars in the future, you run a real risk of having to write off your solar system technologically long before you have written it off economically. I think it would be far cheaper to charge your car by buying green electricity.
gwatpe
Well-known member
AndyInOz said:
Hi Andy, I presently either [recharge my PHEV], or [home aircon], with my home setup, from my 9 year old Lithium Battery, OFFgrid PV setup.
I was an early adopter of PV and there are domestic commercial options now from eg, Tesla power wall, et.al.
My PHEV is not driven every day, but when it need to b recharged, I plug it in OFFgrid, but only during the day. I have a large surplus of PV, and when the home battery is almost fully recharged, I dump surplus to the PHEV. works really well as additional PV is cheaper than additional batteries and we try to reduce battery cycling to extend battery life. I get no utility benefit from my OFFgrid PV.
economics are getting better with more competition.
Hypermiler
Well-known member
Are you off grid? Batteries are not cost effective yet as I understand it. We have 10 kWp of panels and charge in 13 amp socket during daytime where possible
Cheers
H
Cheers
H
Me?
No gwatpe and I are both grid-connected (see our sigs).
I like the idea of having additional panels, battery etc. so that the car is completely carbon neutral.
I don't have a green power option with my electricity retailler because I'm a solar generator. Some error in their system configuration I guess.
My average daily consumption has gone up to 7 kWh now that I have the PHEV so I may have a power bill again one day in the future.
(Current consumption is whittling down the credit I had built up before)
If I add more panels, I lose the current feed in tariff.
And I could really do without the 70 cents per day, "service charge"
Andy
No gwatpe and I are both grid-connected (see our sigs).
I like the idea of having additional panels, battery etc. so that the car is completely carbon neutral.
I don't have a green power option with my electricity retailler because I'm a solar generator. Some error in their system configuration I guess.
My average daily consumption has gone up to 7 kWh now that I have the PHEV so I may have a power bill again one day in the future.
(Current consumption is whittling down the credit I had built up before)
If I add more panels, I lose the current feed in tariff.
And I could really do without the 70 cents per day, "service charge"
Andy
Hypermiler
Well-known member
Sorry, I was asking whether the op was off grid...
Cheers
Cheers
Daniju said:
I would like to have some foldable solar panel to be put on the car during the day when stationary on an outdoor parking lot ... that can charge the car ... even if they provide a fraction of charge ... it is still useful for my point of view
For be energy efficient .. I believe it must be a DC to DC charge, so via the chademo ... that it is designed for fast charge ... but who knows ... maybe it allow also slow charge.
It sound something feasible to produce such a thing for less then 500 USD ... capable to provide 300 to 400w of charge ... that means in a normal 8 hours parking outside the office .. it can be top up 2 or 3kwh in a nice sunny day ... that means winning up to 10km or range
I know some people DIY the chademo port .. but I guess so far nobody did a simple unit power by "portable" solar panels
jaapv
Well-known member
Errrmm.... The Chademo charge is at 32 Amps. I guess you would have to cover the entire parking lot with solar panels.
jaapv said:
It should be able to negotiate max and minimum charger current .. but if it is already 1amp the minimum .. it is still a hard demand .. since it will be over 300w power.
Chademo specs are quite obscure ... it is a sort of open .. but only for the paying companies
More easy would be to bypass all the charging stuffs .. and directly push current to the battery ... but it will not be anymore a PnP solution
About Chademo ... I have seen as small as 10kw charger and as big as 90kw .. 10kw .. yes it is around 32amp
Over Chademo in theory it is even possible to discharge the battery .. so to use the car battery as "generator" ...
If I got it right ... Chademo does provide direct access to the battery .. and over the CAM it is negotiated the charge/discharge current .. the car just control that the current going to the battery it is matching what it is negotiated ... in case of failure ... it disconnect the battery from the plug ...
So .. if Outlander PHEV allow a charge less then 1Amp .. it is feasible and relative easy to implement.
jaapv
Well-known member
"pushing current directly into the battery" is not a very good idea at all with a Li-Ion battery. It will lead to overheating, batteries brewing up and possibly fire and explosion. Witness the Boeing 787, Samsung 7, and ~ Mitsubishi PHEV woes in that respect.
(The first 4000 PHEV vehicles were pulled off the road for batteries overheating, production was held up for two months for a redesign)
(The first 4000 PHEV vehicles were pulled off the road for batteries overheating, production was held up for two months for a redesign)
