Idea to stop ICE from starting when cold

[littlescrote]

However, the issue with the ICE starting up from cold, (a) if I switch the heating to OFF I cannot preheat the PHEV off the mains,

Why not? The timed heating/cooling/demist functions set the blower, flaps, heater etc to achieve their function, regardless of where you left the HVAC settings when you switched the car off.

a(c) It heats up a lot quicker with the ICE running, to honest it is only a small amount of fuel.

It is only a small bit of fuel, but it's a bit of engine wear that some of us don't want, and more importantly it's often urban pollution that a lot of don't want to create as it kills thousands of children every year.

 

[user 3575]

However, the issue with the ICE starting up from cold, (a) if I switch the heating to OFF I cannot preheat the PHEV off the mains,

Why not? The timed heating/cooling/demist functions set the blower, flaps, heater etc to achieve their function, regardless of where you left the HVAC settings when you switched the car off.

a(c) It heats up a lot quicker with the ICE running, to honest it is only a small amount of fuel.

It is only a small bit of fuel, but it's a bit of engine wear that some of us don't want, and more importantly it's often urban pollution that a lot of don't want to create as it kills thousands of children every year.

(a) not sure about your model but our UK 2020, if you leave the heating in OFF mode it cannot work remotely or be heated using the mains.
(b) I still have over half a tank of fuel just over 7 weeks old, we are in Tier 3 under tight restriction, all our journey at present are approximately 12 miles, I do need to burn some fuel off before it goes off.
(c) as regards engine wear I change my car every 3 years approximately 20,000/21,000 miles.
(d) but I do agree about the urban pollution, as we tow a caravan we have always brought diesel cars due there superior towing abilities, however this time we opted for a PHEV, until an affordable EV capable of towing.

 

[kpetrov]

The latest development on the issue is that this is happening exclusively on Canadian models after an recall for "update" on BMU.
In other words intentionally while omitting information from the victims which hoped for better BMU not Mitsu covering their asses.

But the PHEV has no idea when you set off if you're doing a 3-mile or a 300-mile trip, so they have to program it for the worst case.

I got that but find it (program it for the worst case) very unprofessional, inconsistent from model to model, inconsistent with "PHEV has no idea when you set off if you're doing a 3-mile or a 300-mile trip"- we have CHARGE, SAVE, EV for that reason.
If that's the case (program it for the worst) then the ICE should start immediately and regardless of heating settings on European models.

It heats up a lot quicker with the ICE running, to honest it is only a small amount of fuel.

Well it is only a small amount of fuel if the length of your trip don't match the time ICE need to warm up and no it's not heating up quicker if you arrive to your destination when the hot air from the vents just appear and you have to park your vehicle.
BTW I am preheating in the morning for 20 min. and the engine fires up no matter what.
Probably by eliminating all accelerations the ICE will stay quiet but traffic lights are big obstacle to that endeavour.
One graphic from today - the engine didn't start because of acceleration. (how I manage to stop it immediately will be an topic when optimal solution is found)

 

[littlescrote]

(a) not sure about your model but our UK 2020, if you leave the heating in OFF mode it cannot work remotely or be heated using the mains.

I think you're mistaken as I've just downloaded the 2020 manual and there is nothing in the heating section that says anything even remotely like that. Neither in section 3 about the Remote operation, nor in section 8 about the HVAC. It would be weird for them to have done that on later models when earlier models were capable of it.

What makes you think that?

 

[user 3575]

(a) not sure about your model but our UK 2020, if you leave the heating in OFF mode it cannot work remotely or be heated using the mains.

I think you're mistaken as I've just downloaded the 2020 manual and there is nothing in the heating section that says anything even remotely like that. Neither in section 3 about the Remote operation, nor in section 8 about the HVAC. It would be weird for them to have done that on later models when earlier models were capable of it.

What makes you think that?

Thankyou for taking the time to download the 2020 manual and going through the manual, I appreciate you time and effort, I have the hard copy which came with the vehicle and downloaded the manual online, but to be honest I am not finding the manual helpful. I must be doing something wrong as usual.

 

[kpetrov]

Test it. I sat in the vehicle (closed locked doors, system OFF) set it to start heating in the next few min. On my2018 works no-matter of HVAC settings, off or on.

 

[Fjpod]

(a) not sure about your model but our UK 2020, if you leave the heating in OFF mode it cannot work remotely or be heated using the mains.

I think you're mistaken as I've just downloaded the 2020 manual and there is nothing in the heating section that says anything even remotely like that. Neither in section 3 about the Remote operation, nor in section 8 about the HVAC. It would be weird for them to have done that on later models when earlier models were capable of it.

What makes you think that?

I have a 2020 in the US. You can indeed start the heat/defroster remotely from your cell phone whether the heating controls in the car were left on or off.

My complaint is the WIFI in the car is very weak and I cannot link to it from 20 feet away in my house.

 

[user 3575]

I will have to give it another go

 

[greendwarf]

Don't discount the notion that the PHEV is different in Canada. Each market has its individual model based on some superficial issues such as colour or trim (UK cars generally need sun roofs and Aircon because of perceived buyer demand) or practical features such as sump heaters in Finland. Mitsu are selling cars for all of Canada, with all its climatic challenges, not just the cities.

 

[littlescrote]

Don't discount the notion that the PHEV is different in Canada. Each market has its individual model based on some superficial issues such as colour or trim (UK cars generally need sun roofs and Aircon because of perceived buyer demand) or practical features such as sump heaters in Finland. Mitsu are selling cars for all of Canada, with all its climatic challenges, not just the cities.

Indeed. It seems from discussion on the Facebook group that the Canadian model does have a quirk that starts the ICE when the ambient temperature is 'cold' to 'pre-warm' the engine in the expectation that it will get used at some point in the journey.

 

[jaapv]

I wouldn't call that a quirk, I would call it a wise move to avoid warranty claims. People seem to think that a plug-in hybrid is a full EV vehicle. It is not. The whole concept is that it has both a battery and an ICE that comes in from time to time for various reasons. If one expects it not to use the engine, one has paid a load of money and is lugging around a lot of excess weight, for nothing.

 

[kpetrov]

I agree it is not quirk from Mitsu point of view but is quirk for the end users expecting the vehicle with manually activated CARGE, SAVE & EV modes to be little bit more thoughtfully done.
What Mitsu did is just fast reprogramming for Canadian models (that I know of) in order to save their asses and they are hiding it from the customers.

Well the reason I paid for the engine is not to use it when I go to pick-up my kid from a practice or going to the store 1 mile down the road.

The reality for some Canadian models is exactly opposite for half a year - If one expects not to use the battery, one has paid a load of money and is lugging around a lot of excess weight, for nothing.

Fortunately, for every sloppy design there is an silly solution, always.
Installing an remotely operated relay or switch that kills the engine, therefore eliminating and the cold starts when stepped hard on so many here are concerned about.

And yes Outlander PHEV is a full EV with the versatility of an petrol engine add on. That's why a lot of us bought it. It has an full EV powertrain completely disconnected from the ICE in every way with autonomous cooling, heating and charging.

Why is so difficult for some to grasp it. The engine is for long distances on higher speeds. The EV for short and slow ones.
An design specifically and only oriented to avoid warranty claims is not an good design.
I love the vehicle and with the modification to kill the ICE my love is complete.

 

[Fjpod]

In case no one has said it here.... my new 2020 US model... so far the engine only starts if I turn the heat on high. We've had only a couple of near freezing days here in NY so far.

 

[ThudnBlundr]

Why is so difficult for some to grasp it. The engine is for long distances on higher speeds. The EV for short and slow ones.

Really? Which Mitsubishi executives and engineers did you speak to? I've certainly seen no public documents stating that, so you must have someone on the inside. Or are you saying that's what YOU think and we all should simply agree with you? :roll:

An design specifically and only oriented to avoid warranty claims is not an good design.

The design is there to prolong the life of the car. Or maybe you'd like a car that is scrap after 5 years just so that you can have what you want and sod the rest of us :roll:

 

[user 3575]

I am really struggling with this one its a PHEV not an EV if you really want to run in EV mode all the time why not just simply buy an EV there are plenty of good ones about like the Kia/Hyundai.

Is the design flawed in my opinion no it does everything with ease

 

[kpetrov]

If I wanted to buy an BEV I would have bought one. Not looking in to advise on this topic though. I need an engine few times per week. EV all the time is your words not mine.
Don't struggle Oscarmax. It is indeed an PHEV and I'm planning to use it at 0 Celsius the same way it perform at 6 Celsius.

Engineer myself don't need to speak to any executive. Not looking for lecturing on how to run a company or speaking to engineers under the obligation to protect the company interests.

I realize the feature (pure EV for short trips) that many of us are looking for cannot be so easily implemented for the average driver maintaining vehicle specs, foolproofness and longevity. I don't blame Mitsu for that, perfectly understand them. Blaming them for false advertising on Canadian model though.
That being said, I'm currently implementing the simplest and failproof solution that I came to hidden in this power distribution circuit... recently found being used from others for more than a year.
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_phev/online/Service_Manual_2014/img/90/HKAB0E01BC00ENG.pdf
Once I find the most elegant solution on relay A-19X will post it.

BTW don't need advice from ppl saying running my ICE few times per day for short amount of time (without complete warm-up and catalytic cycle) will increase my vehicle longevity as well.

 

[user 3575]

If I wanted to buy an BEV I would have bought one. Not looking in to advise on this topic though. I need an engine few times per week. EV all the time is your words not mine.
Don't struggle Oscarmax. It is indeed an PHEV and I'm planning to use it in 0 Celsius the same way it perform in 6 Celsius.

Engineer myself don't need to speak to any executive. Not looking for lecturing on how to run a company or speaking to engineers under the obligation to protect the company interests.

I realize the feature (pure EV for short trips) that many of us are looking for cannot be so easily implemented for the average driver maintaining vehicle specs, foolproofness and longevity. I don't blame Mitsu for that, perfectly understand them. Blaming them for false advertising on Canadian model though.
That being said, I'm currently implementing the simplest and failproof solution that I came to hidden in this power distribution circuit... recently found being used from others for more than a year.
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_phev/online/Service_Manual_2014/img/90/HKAB0E01BC00ENG.pdf
Once I find the most elegant solution on relay A-19X will post it.

BTW don't need advice from ppl saying running my ICE few times per day for short amount of time (without complete warm-up and catalytic cycle) will increase my vehicle longevity as well.

If you really wish to stop the ICE firing up follows Richi advice, set the heater control to 15 degrees C, leave the heater OFF, turn the PHEV on , press ECO mode, then turn heater on, ICE should not start up.

In the warmer weather I could get away, but as the temperatures are now dropping the ICE is firing up at 20 degrees C, but as I have stated before I am not worried about the ICE starting up, I live out in the sticks so not polluting anyone but myself, at the end of the day it is a PHEV not an EV.

 

[Fjpod]

If I wanted to buy an BEV I would have bought one. Not looking in to advise on this topic though. I need an engine few times per week. EV all the time is your words not mine.
Don't struggle Oscarmax. It is indeed an PHEV and I'm planning to use it at 0 Celsius the same way it perform at 6 Celsius.

Engineer myself don't need to speak to any executive. Not looking for lecturing on how to run a company or speaking to engineers under the obligation to protect the company interests.

I realize the feature (pure EV for short trips) that many of us are looking for cannot be so easily implemented for the average driver maintaining vehicle specs, foolproofness and longevity. I don't blame Mitsu for that, perfectly understand them. Blaming them for false advertising on Canadian model though.
That being said, I'm currently implementing the simplest and failproof solution that I came to hidden in this power distribution circuit... recently found being used from others for more than a year.
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander_phev/online/Service_Manual_2014/img/90/HKAB0E01BC00ENG.pdf
Once I find the most elegant solution on relay A-19X will post it.

BTW don't need advice from ppl saying running my ICE few times per day for short amount of time (without complete warm-up and catalytic cycle) will increase my vehicle longevity as well.

following

 

[kpetrov]

If you really wish to stop the ICE firing up follows Richi advice, set the heater control to 15 degrees C, leave the heater OFF, turn the PHEV on , press ECO mode, then turn heater on, ICE should not start up.

Apparently not all models are programed the same way. I found few other owners complaining about the same. All of us have undergone an reprogramming of the BMU after Canadian models recall.

The ICE would kick in even going trough suggested start-up sequence. No matter the heater stays OFF at the end of the sequence.

Fortunately the vehicle is designed very well (beside BMU soft. complains that actually don't do any real damage) and both EV and ICE system are completely separated on power level.

For the interested to disable the ICE if nothing else works like start-up sequences, heaters off and etc.
DISCLAIMER: USE AT YOUR OWN RISK This information is for informational purposes only. NO LIABILITY for any loss or damage suffered as a result of the use, misuse or reliance on the information and content.
Fast solution - pull out relay A-19X. (Engine control relay) http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... C00ENG.pdf
Solution 2 - install a switch on pin 1 same relay. Will post once done. (Some are using this method for an year now)
This will disable the ICE even if you try to floor it. The consequences are few errors on the dash like fuel lid open, engine overheating and EV system error, but you will have an BEV.

 

[user 3575]

Thankyou for your post that explains everything, Mitsubishi dealers tend to be very secretive, our PHEV would switch between UK miles and km at will, I companied to the dealer who stated they will check for any resets, they later informed me none were available, but strangely it longer changes between miles and km at random.