Anyone else who wouldn't have a PHEV again?

[ian4x4]

I find the Prius transmission very interesting from an engineering point of view.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-is-how-toyota-prius-gearbox-works-video-63918.html

There are some good instruction videos on the electrics and energy recovery also on the web.

 

[greendwarf]

Do I understand correctly that the engine does not turn off, other than at very low speeds?

It can turn off at almost any speed - the electric motor can take the car up to 50mph at least - but it is never off for long if the car is in motion because the battery capacity is so low. The normal cruising configuration of the car is the engine running at somewhere between 1000 and 2000 rpm providing both drive to the wheels directly through the differential and generating electricity. At the same time, the electric motor is running, also producing drive to the wheels and being the primary means of speed control. The speed of the petrol engine will increase as the road speed approaches 60mph more or less since the electric motor speed begins to max out around that point and the petrol engine begins to take over as the road speed controller.

So not very green from a tail-pipe pollution point of view :|

 

[maby]

Do I understand correctly that the engine does not turn off, other than at very low speeds?

It can turn off at almost any speed - the electric motor can take the car up to 50mph at least - but it is never off for long if the car is in motion because the battery capacity is so low. The normal cruising configuration of the car is the engine running at somewhere between 1000 and 2000 rpm providing both drive to the wheels directly through the differential and generating electricity. At the same time, the electric motor is running, also producing drive to the wheels and being the primary means of speed control. The speed of the petrol engine will increase as the road speed approaches 60mph more or less since the electric motor speed begins to max out around that point and the petrol engine begins to take over as the road speed controller.

So not very green from a tail-pipe pollution point of view :|

It's not particularly green at all - it's quite easy to get the same figures out of any car of comparable size and shape - and bear in mind that it is kept very light by being almost entirely aluminium and plastic. The advantages of the Prius are (or, at least, were) tax treatment and the CVT fully automatic transmission which makes it a lovely car to drive in city traffic. The disadvantage as it gets older is outrageous servicing costs because nobody apart from Toyota is prepared to open the bonnet.

 

[tlongdon]

On balance, I wouldn't have another PHEV for various reasons. Is there anyone else who has come to the same conclusion? If so, why?

I wouldn't have another PHEV either.

1. Only bought it for BIK benefits, as I wanted a slightly larger car without the corresponding cost. Those BIK savings are rapidly eroding.
2. It is 99.9% impossible to charge on-the-go. Every IKEA, shopping centre, motorway service station charging point is either taken or not working
3. The petrol tank is massively too small
4. A car like this should be used for long journeys (AWD, adaptive cruise control, etc). However, the kinds of trips its best suited for (taking kids to school) would be better done in a VW Up or similar shorter journey cars.
5. I can't see the windscreen with the sun visor down
6. Phone bluetooth either won't pair or will routinely disconnect so I'm having to keep headphones plugged into the phone. In fact, generally very unusable MMCS including the Satnav
7. There's significantly more road noise on motorways than in my previous car (LR Freelander 2)
8. There's no option for a heated front windscreen for rapid defrost

That's about it. There are some things I really like that I'd never had before, and would try to find these on my next car:

1. the smooth CVT gearbox
2. electronic tailgate
3. rear camera

 

[anko]

There are some things I really like that I'd never had before, ...

1. the smooth CVT gearbox

:|

 

[tlongdon]

There are some things I really like that I'd never had before, ...

1. the smooth CVT gearbox

:|

Honestly. I love it. Except when it screams up hills. But it beats most boy racers off the lights ;-)

 

[anko]

There are some things I really like that I'd never had before, ...

1. the smooth CVT gearbox

:|

Honestly. I love it. Except when it screams up hills. But it beats most boy racers off the lights ;-)

Mine doesn't have one. Too bad.

 

[maby]

...

Mine doesn't have one. Too bad.

Don't be so literal - or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

True, the PHEV does not have a mechanical CVT gearbox with steel belts sliding along metal cones or other arcane mechanical contraptions, but the electric transmission with the battery as a power reservoir does provide exactly the same functionality as a CVT.

 

[Tipper]

But it isn't a CVT. It's a pair of single electric motors directly coupled to their respective driven wheels. A gearbox implies more than one gear so where's the gearbox?

Similarly the engine can be directly geared (single ratio) to the front wheels through an automatic clutch so no gearbox there either.

The 'CVT like' experience is the engine driving the generator to supply the batteries which are powering the car...no gearboxes there either!

It's more like a Diesel-Electric Locomotive with batteries, but petrol powered of course.

I have an MG TF Stepspeed. That is CVT geared with manual 'ratio' override.

 

[tlongdon]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

 

[Tipper]

:lol:

 

[maby]

But it isn't a CVT. It's a pair of single electric motors directly coupled to their respective driven wheels. A gearbox implies more than one gear so where's the gearbox?

Similarly the engine can be directly geared (single ratio) to the front wheels through an automatic clutch so no gearbox there either.

The 'CVT like' experience is the engine driving the generator to supply the batteries which are powering the car...no gearboxes there either!

It's more like a Diesel-Electric Locomotive with batteries, but petrol powered of course.

I have an MG TF Stepspeed. That is CVT geared with manual 'ratio' override.

C(ontinually) V(ariable) T(ransmission) - I don't see the word "gearbox" anywhere in there - do you?????

 

[maby]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

It does tend to go with religious fervour...

 

[jaapv]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

Well, we like to get our facts and terms straight - it avoids confusion.

 

[maby]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

Well, we like to get our facts and terms straight - it avoids confusion.

In this case, at least, the term CVT is perfectly correct - it is a functional term and does not imply any particular implementation.

 

[anko]

But it isn't a CVT. It's a pair of single electric motors directly coupled to their respective driven wheels. A gearbox implies more than one gear so where's the gearbox?

Similarly the engine can be directly geared (single ratio) to the front wheels through an automatic clutch so no gearbox there either.

The 'CVT like' experience is the engine driving the generator to supply the batteries which are powering the car...no gearboxes there either!

It's more like a Diesel-Electric Locomotive with batteries, but petrol powered of course.

I have an MG TF Stepspeed. That is CVT geared with manual 'ratio' override.

C(ontinually) V(ariable) T(ransmission) - I don't see the word "gearbox" anywhere in there - do you?????

Well, look a bit further back. Tlongdon wrote: "the smooth CVT gearbox". Had he written "the smooth CVT" or better yet "the smooth CVT like experience", then sure, I would have agreed with him. Although to a certain point. Because people that expect to get a PHEV like experience from a normal CVT equipped car might get disappointed, as the screaming experience, you so desperately try to avoid, could easily happen much more with a normal CVT than it does with the PHEV.

 

[jaapv]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

Well, we like to get our facts and terms straight - it avoids confusion.

In this case, at least, the term CVT is perfectly correct - it is a functional term and does not imply any particular implementation.

I would say the belt/chain and pulleys/cogwheels are missing...
Especially as this aspect differentiates the Mitsubishi from a number of other hybrids.

 

[anko]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

Well, we like to get our facts and terms straight - it avoids confusion.

In this case, at least, the term CVT is perfectly correct - it is a functional term and does not imply any particular implementation.

And you accuse me of being literal :shock: :lol:

Like it or not, most people will interpret "CVT" as a reference to a specific type of transmission (CV) that connects the engine to the wheels of a car.

 

[anko]

Who knew the high proportion of pedants amongst PHEV owners.

Who knew the number of misinformed or misinforming people amongst PHEV owners? Different sides of the same coin, I guess.

 

[Tipper]

Enough! I know what I have and what I like. That's enough for me and on the basis that the engineering can only get better as time goes by and as the 2016 model appears to show, then I'll have another if my time and money allows. I no longer have the worry of business tax just how my income/savings last! :lol: I await the ASX PHEV with interest as a smaller car would suit us better next time.

Having viewed that video of the Prius transmission I'm mighty impressed. I didn't realise how clever it was as I have never really taken much interest in either EV or Hybrids before choosing the Outlander.